Reds pushing for Bedard hard?

[erb8472]

It is 5:30 pm how can you be drunk already????

Helton has a career 143 OPS+ with 4 seasons of 160+ OPS+. Votto career OPS in the minors is .861. The only comparison is both of there strenghts were in OBP. Helton with a .400+ OBP in the minors vs Votto's .380 OBP.

I'm not drunk already. It's obvious that most of you feel I am overvaluing Votto. I still think that Votto compares more to Helton than Casey no matter what point of their careers we are talking about.

[Frobby]

Given. But I'm not sure how you're injecting any common sense that didn't already pre-date your arrival.

Uh, because in my mind, until I say it, it really hasn't been said.

No, I suppose you are right. I just find it funny when people argue so vehemently about the ceiling of someone who, chances are, they have never seen play.

One thing we know - Votto is no Helton defensively.

[erb8472]

I have seen Votto play thanks to the baseball package.

Bill James projects Votto to have a .375 OBP and .586 Slugging Percentage next year giving him a .961 OPS.

He must see something he likes.

[O'chested]

Just a side not on Stubbs here. He played last year with a bad toe problem (turf toe I think) so that likely had something to do with those SB #'s.

All in all it's not a bad deal either way. Especially depending on that 5th possible player. If it's Wood, Maloney, Viola, Pelland or Roenicke you guys got a steal IMO.

[olehippi]

Originally Posted by B T

I'm pretty sure UK means University of Kentucky, not United Kingdom.

That is still international isn't it?

I have a lot of relatives living in south eastern KY. I'd say that people in that part of KY are a little strange......"other-worldly"....at least my relatives are.....

[Lucky Jim]

Uh, because in my mind, until I say it, it really hasn't been said.

No, I suppose you are right. I just find it funny when people argue so vehemently about the ceiling of someone who, chances are, they have never seen play.

One thing we know - Votto is no Helton defensively.

Fair enough - but the flip side is that we never try to figure out what to expect from prospects because of uncertainty. And that makes it awfully tough to build a team.

I didn't mean to sound testy there, Frobby - but tonal control isn't always easy on this here Interweb.

[TGO]

I'm not drunk already. It's obvious that most of you feel I am overvaluing Votto. I still think that Votto compares more to Helton than Casey no matter what point of their careers we are talking about.

Let's agree to this: if Votto profiles somewhere between vintage Sean Casey and vintage Todd Helton, he will be a very, very good player.

[baltfan]

If the Orioles could get Pie in a Roberts deal, would you rather have Votto + Cueto as the first two pieces in a deal or Jones + Clement? Assume whatever additional pieces from the M's and Reds are roughly equal.

[Ruzious]

I have seen Votto play thanks to the baseball package.

Bill James projects Votto to have a .375 OBP and .586 Slugging Percentage next year giving him a .961 OPS.

He must see something he likes.

Wow, he slugged only .478 at Louisville (AAA). James must see a lot more power than I would expect.

[TyCobb]

I'm not drunk already. It's obvious that most of you feel I am overvaluing Votto. I still think that Votto compares more to Helton than Casey no matter what point of their careers we are talking about.

It isn't just Votto. You could say Jay Bruce or any big time prospect will have a similar career to Helton, and I would think it is an overvalue.

[erb8472]

Sounds good to me. Maybe I'm being over ambitious in saying that Votto will be Helton esque with the bat, but I must say that I like what I've seen of him. Everything I've read about him has very good things to say as well.

Honestly with what we've had at 1b for 10 years anything with a decent pulse and decent swing would be welcoming.

[Lucky Jim]

Sounds good to me. Maybe I'm being over ambitious in saying that Votto will be Helton esque with the bat, but I must say that I like what I've seen of him. Everything I've read about him has very good things to say as well.

Honestly with what we've had at 1b for 10 years anything with a decent pulse and decent swing would be welcoming.

I think I can speak for everyone when I say that, if we trade for him, there won't be one person here (well, except for our Reds friends) sorry to be wrong about this.

[Mackus]

Just to expand you compared Votto to a Sean Casey like hitter with more power. Well do you think he'll have twice the power of Casey, because Casey only averaged 16 homers a season, and a 816 OPS.

IMO Votto projects much closer to Helton than Casey. I'm not saying Votto is a sure ballot hall of famer, but that the case for comparing him to Helton offensivley exists.

Look at Casey's early career, which is what people are making the comparison are comparing him to. Casey looked like he was going to be a ~25 HR, .850-.900 OPS guy. His first four years were 7 / .782 (half season), 25 / .938, 20 / .902, and 13 / .827. His power dropped as he got further into his career, but most on here are comparing him to the early Sean Casey, which is a very good comparison, far better than one of the best 1B to ever play the sport.

[srh523]

I think I can speak for everyone when I say that, if we trade for him, there won't be one person here (well, accept for our Reds friends) sorry to be wrong about this.

Will "the thrill" anyone?

[Lucky Jim]

Will "the thrill" anyone?

I can't believe I wrote "accept." Moron.