Cast your 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot (Update: Maddux, Glavine, Thomas Elected)

[Can_of_corn]

Do you equate greenies with steroids???

Two very different things.

I do yes. While they do very different things they are both used to give the player a competitive advantage.

I have not seen any studies that show that one has more of an effect then another.

Look at it this way, lets say that taking Greenies gets player A one more hit a week, due to better reflexes, greater alertness, more games played whatever.

Baseball season is around 26 weeks long right? So that is 26 more hits a season. Sounds fair right?

Now a HoF player typically has a long career so lets say 16 seasons.

That is 416 hits in a career.

To me that is a pretty big impact.

[Can_of_corn]

Was juggling some numbers. Biggio missed by 1 or 2 votes out of 571 ballots.

I read two votes.

We all know one of them...

[russ snyder]

I remembered Charlie Hustle when he was a player. Like Cal Jr, wasn't the best athletic guy on the field. But, he pushed himself to get as much as he could from the game. I loved the way he played the game.

Yes, based on field stats deserves to be in.

But, given the fact, that he committed the ultimate taboo and bet not only on baseball but he own frigging team, then MLB has to no choice but to throw the lifetime ban at the guy.

I suspect if he had come clean early on, it would have been far easier to forgive him, like they did with Mays and Mantle and he probably would be in the HOF.

Just to clarify, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn forced both Mays and Mantle to give up their coaching positions with the Mets and Yankees because they were employed as goodwill ambassadors by two casinos in Atlantic City. Both of these players were already members of the Hall of Fame and their status as such was not affected. They were never associated with sports gambling as the casinos did not have sports books at the time. Further, once Kuhn passed away, Peter Ueberroth reinstated both Mays and Mantle. In short, the ban on Mays and Mantle had nothing to do with their betting on baseball.

[Redskins Rick]

[/b]

Just to clarify, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn forced both Mays and Mantle to give up their coaching positions with the Mets and Yankees because they were employed as goodwill ambassadors by two casinos in Atlantic City. Both of these players were already members of the Hall of Fame and their status as such was not affected. They were never associated with sports gambling as the casinos did not have sports books at the time. Further, once Kuhn passed away, Peter Ueberroth reinstated both Mays and Mantle. In short, the ban on Mays and Mantle had nothing to do with their betting on baseball.

Thanks and you are correct, but relationships with gambling and baseball as always been taboo.

[Redskins Rick]

I do yes. While they do very different things they are both used to give the player a competitive advantage.

I have not seen any studies that show that one has more of an effect then another.

Look at it this way, lets say that taking Greenies gets player A one more hit a week, due to better reflexes, greater alertness, more games played whatever.

Baseball season is around 26 weeks long right? So that is 26 more hits a season. Sounds fair right?

Now a HoF player typically has a long career so lets say 16 seasons.

That is 416 hits in a career.

To me that is a pretty big impact.

I am not a medical expert.

and I do not condone the use of any substance, to me, greenies is a lot like a very strong cup of caffeine and gets your blood pumping, more Oxygen in the blood and you perform better, yes, there are side effects etc and yes, one shouldn't be allowed.

Steorids gives one muscle mass and an ability to bounce back quicker from injuries.

I think this might be why the ban for greenies is 25 days and steroids is 50.

[russ snyder]

Thanks and you are correct, but relationships with gambling and baseball as always been taboo.

No problem. There is no doubt that being employed by casinos caused Mays and Mantle to be exiled from the game of baseball. Even though the gambling was legal, I can see where Kuhn felt that there was a conflict of interest.

[josh35b]

How the heck does Armando Benitez get a vote?

That writer should get banned from voting.

http://bbwaa.com/

[Rene88]

How the heck does Armando Benitez get a vote?

That writer should get banned from voting.

http://bbwaa.com/

J.T. Snow got 2 votes...NOT KIDDING....

[Can_of_corn]

I am not a medical expert.

and I do not condone the use of any substance, to me, greenies is a lot like a very strong cup of caffeine and gets your blood pumping, more Oxygen in the blood and you perform better, yes, there are side effects etc and yes, one shouldn't be allowed.

Steorids gives one muscle mass and an ability to bounce back quicker from injuries.

I think this might be why the ban for greenies is 25 days and steroids is 50.

I think there is more of a social stigma attached to roids.

They both enhance performance if you get in an uproar over one, in my view, you should get in an uproar over both.

[Number5]

I remembered Charlie Hustle when he was a player. Like Cal Jr, wasn't the best athletic guy on the field. But, he pushed himself to get as much as he could from the game. I loved the way he played the game.

Yes, based on field stats deserves to be in.

But, given the fact, that he committed the ultimate taboo and bet not only on baseball but he own frigging team, then MLB has to no choice but to throw the lifetime ban at the guy.

I suspect if he had come clean early on, it would have been far easier to forgive him, like they did with Mays and Mantle and he probably would be in the HOF.

Hornung and Karras bet on their own teams against eash pther and were banned for a year from the NFL. I certainly don't condone it, but betting on your own team doesn't bother me nearly as much as betting against your own team, since the motivation would be to win.

Amazingly, umpires don't get the same treatment. Whether an umpire is betting on baseball or not, the idea that an umpire could be heavily indebted to bookmakers seems particularly disturbing to me. Might even explain some bizarre calls:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-gambling-touched-baseball-umps/

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=3345251

[Redskins Rick]

I think there is more of a social stigma attached to roids.

They both enhance performance if you get in an uproar over one, in my view, you should get in an uproar over both.

Lots of roid users have died at an early age because of the troll on one's body.

Also Roid rage is a very very real thing, and scary too, if you ever happen to see it in person.

[Redskins Rick]

Hornung and Karras bet on their own teams against eash pther and were banned for a year from the NFL. I certainly don't condone it, but betting on your own team doesn't bother me nearly as much as betting against your own team, since the motivation would be to win.

Amazingly, umpires don't get the same treatment. Whether an umpire is betting on baseball or not, the idea that an umpire could be heavily indebted to bookmakers seems particularly disturbing to me. Might even explain some bizarre calls:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-gambling-touched-baseball-umps/

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=3345251

Hornung and Karras were also not the head manager, with the ability to a control over the game that a manager does.

Not that what they did was right, they got a one year suspension.

I still say, Rose would have been forgiven and reinstated, if he humbled himself and owned up to his sins and asked for forgiveness.

[Frobby]

The HOF voters versus the OH Poll:

Maddux 97/98

Glavine 92/80

Thomas 84/73

Biggio 74.8/57

Piazza 62/58

Morris 62/16

Clemens 35/42

Bonds 35/41

Schilling 29/36

Mussina 20/57

It's interesting to me that Mussina did so much better at OH, considering the animus that many posters here have against him. The only player who had a bigger discrepancy was Morris. Not a lot of sentimentalists here for ol' Jack on his last go-round.

[russ snyder]

Hornung and Karras were also not the head manager, with the ability to a control over the game that a manager does.

Not that what they did was right, they got a one year suspension.

I still say, Rose would have been forgiven and reinstated, if he humbled himself and owned up to his sins and asked for forgiveness.

Also, football never endured a scandal like the Black Sox.

They deserved the suspensions, you can't have participants of a sport illegally betting on the games.

I believe that Rose would have been forgiven by the masses if he had ever shown any contrition for his actions. However, I don't beleive that he ever would have been reinstated to the game. Betting on games is the Cardinal sin of the game. He broke it.

[PeteU]

How the heck does Armando Benitez get a vote?

That writer should get banned from voting.

http://bbwaa.com/

Jacque Jones also received a single vote.

Am I that poor a baseball fan that I literally had to Google Jacque Jones' name to find out who the $@$% he was? And that after Googling Jacque Jones' name, I still don't remember who the $%@#% he was?

The More You Know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Jones