Flash Era Coming to an End?

[Slappy]

You grossly overstate the virtues of the player you like, and downplay the strengths of the one you don't. Flaherty has been played at every infield position and the OF. In very limited innings, he has not been good defensively in the OF or at 1B. He's been somewhat bad in limited innings at 3B this season. He's been pretty good at SS.

Lombardozzi played 3B quite well for the Nationals before coming to Baltimore. He's played 2B pretty well for the O's this year. He played SS poorly for the Nationals in limited innings. And he played OF for the Nationals much better than Flaherty has for the Orioles in almost four times as many innings. The only position that Flash has played that Lombo hasn't is 1B.

And Flaherty's power? He actually has to use it for that to be considered a tool. Once again, he's batting below the Mendoza line. .179 after last night's game.

It's fine to prefer Flaherty to Lombo if you have good reasons for doing so, but I doubt you even checked Lombo's stats before claiming that he provides mediocre defense at just one position.

Outside of 2B, Flaherty hasn't played enough for us to make any judgement on his defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[webbrick2010]

Lombo : zero walks in 66 AB's, when his average drops to .270 that will also be his OBP

Flaherty : 6 walks in 56 AB's... when his average climbs to the .230 to .250 range his OBP will easily exceed Lombardozzi as will his slugging % (by a wide margin)

Lombo seems like a nice kid but he doesn't get a spot on the roster over Flaherty

[Redskins Rick]

Outside of 2B, Flaherty hasn't played enough for us to make any judgement on his defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Considering both Duke and Buck believe Flash is the best utility guy on the team that can play pretty much anywhere, I can guess should be taken into consideration.

[MrOrange82]

Outside of 2B, Flaherty hasn't played enough for us to make any judgement on his defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that's kind of my point. It strikes me as patently unreasonable to praise Flaherty for his versatility and claim that he plays a laundry list of positions well when the numbers don't really bear that out. And really, there aren't enough numbers to bear that out. Same goes for Lombo. He's played a lot of positions, too, but claiming that he's limited to one position, and mediocre at that one position, seems unwarranted to me.

[MrOrange82]

Lombo : zero walks in 66 AB's, when his average drops to .270 that will also be his OBP

Flaherty : 6 walks in 56 AB's... when his average climbs to the .230 to .250 range his OBP will easily exceed Lombardozzi as will his slugging % (by a wide margin)

Lombo seems like a nice kid but he doesn't get a spot on the roster over Flaherty

When has that ever happened...in a full season?

[El Gordo]

Outside of 2B, Flaherty hasn't played enough for us to make any judgement on his defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since nothing can be known about Flaherty's defense except for 2B, why do you suppose Buck consistently plays him at SS over everyone else in the system except Hardy. Might not that be a clue to his defense at SS? Wouldn't it apper to be the same for 3B?

[Three Run Homer]

Flaherty is the best utility player in the organization, period.

He may be the best 2B in the organization right now, or he may not be. Buck has to decide who should start at 2B once Manny returns--I can see a case for Lombo, Schoop or Flaherty.

Once Manny returns, the O's should consider trading Lombo while he's hitting .300.

[MrOrange82]

Since nothing can be known about Flaherty's defense except for 2B, why do you suppose Buck consistently plays him at SS over everyone else in the system except Hardy. Might not that be a clue to his defense at SS? Wouldn't it apper to be the same for 3B?

Then your argument, and the basis for your opinions, should be "I trust Buck's judgment, and he's clearly shown that he prefers using Flaherty to using Lombo at SS and 3B...because he HAS used Flaherty over Lombo at those positions."

That, however, is a far cry from stating definitively that Flash is a proven defender at multiple positions that Lombo is incapable of playing. Arguments like that need statistical support. Saying "I trust Buck" just needs an eyeball.

[Redskins Rick]

Then your argument, and the basis for your opinions, should be "I trust Buck's judgment, and he's clearly shown that he prefers using Flaherty to using Lombo at SS and 3B...because he HAS used Flaherty over Lombo at those positions."

That, however, is a far cry from stating definitively that Flash is a proven defender at multiple positions that Lombo is incapable of playing. Arguments like that need statistical support. Saying "I trust Buck" just needs an eyeball.

Yet Duke says the same thing about Flash and being the best guy on the roster for being able to play multiple positions well.

[Flash- bd]

Flaherty will be fine. It's still April so he's still ahead of the game. As Gordo posted in another thread I think, his numbers from Memorial Day on in both of the last two seasons refute the idea that he's been a crap hitter except for one hot streak, as I read early in this thread. The only thing I worry about with Flaherty is Buck getting impatient and taking him out of the lineup, when I think consistent ABs, at least until Machado is back, are of paramount importance. If he continues to have the backing of the manager I'm sure he'll get it going sooner than later. I would go out on a limb and say, given similar number ABs, I'd still expect Flaherty to finish with a higher OPS than Schoop. For all the excitement Schoop is generating right now he's got a .733 OPS, and given his plate discipline issues I think a "regression to the mean", like in Manny's first season after his hot start (or his second, for that matter), is much more likely than an improvement of those numbers.

[Rene88]

Doesn't Schoop only need to go back to the minors for a month or so to recoup a year of service time?

That's the only reason I could see him heading to Norfolk, but it's a big one.

Schoop isn't Gaumsan or Bundy. There is no way he is going back down, sorry. He is a good 2nd baseman. If he had to stay at 3B, I would say definitely a shot of him going back down.

Flaherty is all but sealed for super utility now.

Lombo has options, that's why they traded for him. He plays 1 position.

[epic]

Outside of 2B, Flaherty hasn't played enough for us to make any judgement on his defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to agree with this.

As far as UZR goes, Flaherty's was 5.9 at 2B last year in 515 innings, or roughly 57 games. That's a small sample. Lombo has never had more than 394 innings at a single position in a single season at the ML level.

However, when you see the two in the field it's pretty clear - at least in my eyes - who the better fielder is. Flaherty plays a great second base and is also pretty good at 3B in my opinion. He also can cover short in a pinch and look respectable there too which has value.

Lombo plays a pretty good 2B and judging by his arm strength from numerous scouting reports and posters here (he doesn't exactly get the chance to show it off at 2B), he wouldn't be a very good 3B or SS. Admittedly I have seen much more of Flaherty than Lombo but I am confident in saying that Flaherty is the superior defender with the ability to also hold his own at multiple positions.

[El Gordo]

Then your argument, and the basis for your opinions, should be "I trust Buck's judgment, and he's clearly shown that he prefers using Flaherty to using Lombo at SS and 3B...because he HAS used Flaherty over Lombo at those positions."

That, however, is a far cry from stating definitively that Flash is a proven defender at multiple positions that Lombo is incapable of playing. Arguments like that need statistical support. Saying "I trust Buck" just needs an eyeball.

Not only do I trust Buck's and DD's judgment, I trust my own as well. It is clear to me that Flaherty is a superior defender to other options, at 2B and SS. SSS, but his UZR/150 of 15 RS at 2B and 20 RS at SS tends to supports this. You would, I suppose disagree with Buck's judgment, but what statistical information do you have to show he is wrong?

[wildcard]

Flaherty is the best utility player in the organization, period.

He may be the best 2B in the organization right now, or he may not be. Buck has to decide who should start at 2B once Manny returns--I can see a case for Lombo, Schoop or Flaherty.

Once Manny returns, the O's should consider trading Lombo while he's hitting .300.

I don't see the O's trading Lombo. Not with him having options. The O's apparently have not decided to sign Hardy past this year. Who knows what happens there. But if they let him walk, Lombo may come in handy next year.

I think trying to make Lombo better is a better approach then trading him. The guy is 25 years old and may still improve with the proper conditioning.

[El Gordo]

I don't see the O's trading Lombo. Not with him having options. The O's apparently have not decided to sign Hardy past this year. Who knows what happens there. But if they let him walk, Lombo may come in handy next year.

I think trying to make Lombo better is a better approach then trading him. The guy is 25 years old and may still improve with the proper conditioning.

Right according to OldOriole's sticky, both Lombo and Flash have options so take your pick.