Send Ubaldo To The BP

[Nevermore]

I think that is more likely phrased as "if he fixes his problems". The bullpen problem will only intensify when O'Day is ready to come back. I really don't think we can nursemaid and hide Ubaldo for the next month and a half and still have what we need in the bullpen to compete. The cost is already sunk, the only question is whether his replacement would give the team more value and I think that this answer is yes because almost any pitcher is likely going to pitch better than Ubaldo will in the short term of the next 90 games.

The rosters expand in September. I think he can be hidden for 1 1/2 months while he works to improve.

[Nevermore]

Not if he quit. Think Gil Meche.

Ive still never really understood your devotion to the guy.

I'm devoted to all that wear the black and orange. Just for myself, I do not boo players who are Orioles. I might grumble a bit to my buddy at the next seat, and post criticism of various Orioles players on message boards, even Ubaldo. But I do not boo the players on the field. Other fans are welcome to disagree and do or say anything they wish, including booing various Orioles. It's just not what I do as a fan.

This is often false as well. It sometimes takes just a slight adjustment, and the motion you describe isn't simple. Jimenez is often landing with his lead leg and his arm can't catch up. I also don't know that it's the only adjustment that was made. Dropping his right arm on takeaway is also exaggerated.

I didn't realize that you are a pitching coach. Maybe you should contact Dave Wallace with this information; I'm sure that he'd appreciate it.

[El Gordo]

By that time Manny will be back. Janish, sadly, will be gone. They're not eating Ubaldo's contract.

At some point they will.

[sportsfan8703]

I hear Steve Johnson is available.

Steve Johnson would be worth more WAR than Ubaldo going forward. I just don't see the value in Ubaldo. He's a guy that might be worth something after hiding as a rule 5 guy and then having a full ST??? No value.

[Il BuonO]

I'm devoted to all that wear the black and orange. Just for myself, I do not boo players who are Orioles. I might grumble a bit to my buddy at the next seat, and post criticism of various Orioles players on message boards, even Ubaldo. But I do not boo the players on the field. Other fans are welcome to disagree and do or say anything they wish, including booing various Orioles. It's just not what I do as a fan.

I didn't realize that you are a pitching coach. Maybe you should contact Dave Wallace with this information; I'm sure that he'd appreciate it.

Ah, sarcasm. Perfect. Let me enlighten you. I have worked as a pitching coach, scout and most recently was asked to be the pitching coach for a club team competing in the Team USA West tournament. I also have an evaluation business as a sideline. One of my former teammates in college, Alan Jaeger, is one of the preeminent voices on arm strength and conditioning and I incorporate his techniques for those interested.

I wouldn't have listed these if not for your apparent dismissal of some the things I've noted regarding Jimenez and now the subsequent sarcasm. Not that I don't appreciate, I do. Those here who know me have seen me use sarcasm. Though, I try to have at least some knowledge of where I speak before I go off half-cocked.

The OH is a message board, however, and I'm not precluded from offering my opinion because I'm not a ML coach. I see this thrown out by people who usually can't back up their own arguments as a way of shutting down the conversation. We can do that now if you like, but please have the last word.

[Nevermore]

First of all, the person to whom I was responding, to answer the your question. You've obviously never seen previous posts from that person.

Secondly, as someone who played the game at a pretty high level, I never cared for booing any player. Most people who boo or yell things at players have no idea how difficult it is to be a successful pro athlete. I have never booed anyone, though, that is certainly the right of anyone who goes to the game.

Thirdly, your throwing bullying is another manipulation designed to elicit sympathy for a guy being paid millions of dollars to play a game. It's insulting to those who are actually bullied for real.

I haven't mentioned bullying. But before I give you my opinion (and it's an opinion), let me disclose that I was badly bullied when I was in grammar and middle school. So I know all about bullying. One of the worst aspect of being bullied is that it's many vs. one -- bullies gang up on the bullied person. Now that I'm older, I realize that most bullies are cowards. They cannot act on their own, so they gather up a bunch of their friends and pile on the one unfortunate victim.

A player being booed by their own home team fans at a MLB ball game is certainly not the same as a child being bullied at school. The player is an adult and thus knows more about how to handle situations like being booed by their own fans. And the player is highly paid in today's market, usually far more than the fans doing the booing. But their are uncomfortable similarities: several thousand fan venting their contempt, and sometimes rage, on a single player. It makes me very uncomfortable. I suppose that, if I'm uncomfortable, I could leave the game and not be a game-attending fan any longer. I'm not doing that, I won't let the boo-birds drive me away from attending games, something that I do enjoy immensely as a fan. Instead, I can voice my opinions about the practice of fans ganging on a single player on their team. Let me reiterate that fans have every right in the world to express their anger or contempt at a home team player. But just my opinion, I believe that it's wrong.

[Il BuonO]

I haven't mentioned bullying. But before I give you my opinion (and it's an opinion), let me disclose that I was badly bullied when I was in grammar and middle school. So I know all about bullying. One of the worst aspect of being bullied is that it's many vs. one -- bullies gang up on the bullied person. Now that I'm older, I realize that most bullies are cowards. They cannot act on their own, so they gather up a bunch of their friends and pile on the one unfortunate victim.

A player being booed by their own home team fans at a MLB ball game is certainly not the same as a child being bullied at school. The player is an adult and thus knows more about how to handle situations like being booed by their own fans. And the player is highly paid in today's market, usually far more than the fans doing the booing. But their are uncomfortable similarities: several thousand fan venting their contempt, and sometimes rage, on a single player. It makes me very uncomfortable. I suppose that, if I'm uncomfortable, I could leave the game and not be a game-attending fan any longer. I'm not doing that, I won't let the boo-birds drive me away from attending games, something that I do enjoy immensely as a fan. Instead, I can voice my opinions about the practice of fans ganging on a single player on their team. Let me reiterate that fans have every right in the world to express their anger or contempt at a home team player. But just my opinion, I believe that it's wrong.

Did you not notice the response you quoted from me was directed towards another poster? Are you on the board under two handles? That poster, if you'd had bother to read it, did use 'bullied' in regards to Jimenez.

You didn't answer one thing I said in the last post directed towards you and then quote my response to another poster as the opportunity to tell everyone about your own experience. How did that relate at all to what I posted in response to you mocking my knowledge of the game? When I said have the last word I thought you might have stayed on topic. Well done.

[Nevermore]

Did you not notice the response you quoted from me was directed towards another poster? Are you on the board under two handles? That poster, if you'd had bother to read it, did use 'bullied' in regards to Jimenez.

You didn't answer one thing I said in the last post directed towards you and then quote my response to another poster as the opportunity to tell everyone about your own experience. How did that relate at all to what I posted in response to you mocking my knowledge of the game? When I said have the last word I thought you might have stayed on topic. Well done.

First point: I didn't realize that there is a rule against responding to what another poster says. The topic was Ubaldo Jimenez and bullying. And I responded to that subject.

I didn't mean to mock your knowledge of the game. I truly didn't know about your experience in coaching. However, logic tells me that Wallace/Chiti/R. Martinez have more experience than you do. That doesn't preclude your disagreeing with their coaching techniques or suggesting different techniques. But that also doesn't preclude any other poster from disagreeing with you, even though they have less experience than you do.

As for your other point about my not answering your points: you asked me why I was "devoted" to Ubaldo Jimenez and I answered that I am devoted toward all who wear the orange and black. Another poster questioned home fans booing Ubaldo and he/she mentioned that this was similar to bullying. I could readily see this poster's point and expanded on the topic of bullying, mentioning my own experiences.

So i'll expand even more. Seeing one of our black-and-orange guys struggling mightily is when I, as a fan, wish to get behind him, acknowledge his struggles. Like the other poster, I don't see how booing him, no matter how wretched his efforts might be at the time, helps either him or the team.

[Il BuonO]

First point: I didn't realize that there is a rule against responding to what another poster says. The topic was Ubaldo Jimenez and bullying. And I responded to that subject.

I didn't mean to mock your knowledge of the game. I truly didn't know about your experience in coaching. However, logic tells me that Wallace/Chiti/R. Martinez have more experience than you do. That doesn't preclude your disagreeing with their coaching techniques or suggesting different techniques. But that also doesn't preclude any other poster from disagreeing with you, even though they have less experience than you do.

As for your other point about my not answering your points: you asked me why I was "devoted" to Ubaldo Jimenez and I answered that I am devoted toward all who wear the orange and black. Another poster questioned home fans booing Ubaldo and he/she mentioned that this was similar to bullying. I could readily see this poster's point and expanded on the topic of bullying, mentioning my own experiences.

So i'll expand even more. Seeing one of our black-and-orange guys struggling mightily is when I, as a fan, wish to get behind him, acknowledge his struggles. Like the other poster, I don't see how booing him, no matter how wretched his efforts might be at the time, helps either him or the team.

There obviously is no rule when it comes to responding, but your response made it seem as though my post was directed towards you. You might have quoted the original post and then responded which would have avoided any confusion. At least that's how most people do it. I get it, though, you're a rebel.

And I have never, not once intimated that I know more than the Orioles pitching staff. However, because someone else holds a ML coaching position are they necessarily smarter about any aspect in the game of baseball than say a college or even successful HS coach? Are all ML managers and coaches infallible? No, it sometimes may have been different experiences that led people to where they now are in life. I also don't tell people they have to agree with me. I hopefully have enough of an informed opinion on something I've had a hand in for most of my life. Take it or leave it.

You have repeatedly called yourself the Grand Meister of the Ubaldo Jimenez Fan Club. Have you done this with any other player on the team? It really doesn't matter, but your posts going way back seemed to defend him no matter what. Only until recently did you admit he wasn't pitching well, but then we had to hear about the brutish fans (according to you) of the team giving him the what-for undeservedly. The shame of it all!

And somehow you respond to me about bullying instead of the guy who actually authored the post. Mmkay?

I've stated my position on booing anyone, so I guess that's our common ground. Hooray, for all the Orioles come what may! And a pox on your house if any disagree!

But I don't want to incense any of the people who choose to boo at games either. They pay admission and I'm not aware of that somewhat disagreeable voicing of their displeasure has been outlawed yet. You know, freedom of speech and all. It obviously makes them feel better in answer to your question.

I'm exhausted, you win.

[ArtVanDelay]

I have a 29 game plan and thus went to a lot of games last year. I was there more then once when Bud struggled, both in starting and in the bullpen. I heard some grumbling in the stadium, but I never heard a boo or a jeer toward him. And no one in any forum or at the park referred him to "Bad Norris."

Yeah, I'm not buying any of this. I remember Bud being booed and I remember people creating nasty pet names for him.

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah, I'm not buying any of this. I remember Bud being booed and I remember people creating nasty pet names for him.

I wanted to call him Natty Norris but I thought of it as an improvement.

[PaulFolk]

The rosters expand in September. I think he can be hidden for 1 1/2 months while he works to improve.

It's not 1 1/2 months. We're only halfway through June, and then there's all of July and August to get through before rosters expand. That's a long time to carry a pitcher who is an albatross right now and can't be trusted in anything but a blowout game.

[ArtVanDelay]

I wanted to call him Natty Norris but I thought of it as an improvement.

Miller Norris. The champagne of pitchers.

[PaulFolk]

I have a 29 game plan and thus went to a lot of games last year. I was there more then once when Bud struggled, both in starting and in the bullpen. I heard some grumbling in the stadium, but I never heard a boo or a jeer toward him. And no one in any forum or at the park referred him to "Bad Norris."

There was certainly plenty of grumbling about Bud Norris last year. Check out this thread: http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/149361-DFA-Bud-Norris

[Il BuonO]

Yeah, I'm not buying any of this. I remember Bud being booed and I remember people creating nasty pet names for him.

Confirmation bias has a way of bringing everything to light doesn't it? :eektf: