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Adam Jones is The Man


Rene88

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Jones, to me, is very much like Torii Hunter. Demonstrative, competitive, a leader... a RH center fielder with 30 HR power and a tendency not to walk. Hunter is at the end of his career and he's a solid 50 WAR kind of guy. I would not have minded him in Baltimore at all, even for his LA contract. Course, $18 mil meant a bit more in 2008 than today.

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I'm not an expert when it comes to WAR and how to use the website ...

But when I plug him in, in 2014, he's 3rd among CFs in both batting and fielding (ahead of Trout, here).

Batting, his offensive WAR is 10th among all players, ahead of the 2013 AL and NL MVPs

23rd among all position players in defensive WAR, which seems pretty good.

To me, judging him by WAR, he seems like one of the more valuable players in the game. I could be wrong.

I'm not sure what you're doing here.

rWAR has him 13th among outfielders this year at 2.3. Trout is 1st at 4.6. Trout also has a .426 wOBA and 178 wRC+. Jones isn't in the same stratosphere as Trout offensively.

fWAR does have him 10th at 3.0 (Trout at 5.0), mostly due to posting his first positive UZR/150 since 2008. I don't like UZR much, so I used rWAR.

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Jones, to me, is very much like Torii Hunter. Demonstrative, competitive, a leader... a RH center fielder with 30 HR power and a tendency not to walk. Hunter is at the end of his career and he's a solid 50 WAR kind of guy. I would not have minded him in Baltimore at all, even for his LA contract. Course, $18 mil meant a bit more in 2008 than today.

I'd say Jones is the better offensive player (more power, at least), while Hunter has the edge defensively. Good overall comp, though.

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Jones, to me, is very much like Torii Hunter. Demonstrative, competitive, a leader... a RH center fielder with 30 HR power and a tendency not to walk. Hunter is at the end of his career and he's a solid 50 WAR kind of guy. I would not have minded him in Baltimore at all, even for his LA contract. Course, $18 mil meant a bit more in 2008 than today.

I can remember Jones/Hunter comps almost from the day we got him. Interestingly, both have been overrated defensively. They really are pretty good comps though. I think Jones has more upside and can possibly step it up to that 40+ HR level.

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That is indefensible hyperbole, IMO. You may not like judging value by WAR, but it's a good starting point. He's never been close to the top 15 in any full season.

I'm using the Fangraphs site. On this site, Jones ranks 10th in offensive WAR and 23rd in defensive WAR.

So wouldn't about top-15 be reasonable, by these numbers?

Additionally, some players that rank ahead of Jones by WAR are not guys I'd rather have (Brian Dozier, Jose Bautista, Alex Gordon).

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I'm using the Fangraphs site. On this site, Jones ranks 10th in offensive WAR and 23rd in defensive WAR.

So wouldn't about top-15 be reasonable, by these numbers?

Additionally, some players that rank ahead of Jones by WAR are not guys I'd rather have (Brian Dozier, Jose Bautista, Alex Gordon).

The only way he's better than Bautista is if Bautista is injured. .

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The only way he's better than Bautista is if Bautista is injured. .

...which tends to happen a lot these days.

I don't think it's hyperole to rank Jones about 15th among position players. For example, entering the 2014 Jones was listed the #21 player in all of baseball by MLB Network (and the #15 position player). He's on pace for a 5-6 WAR season so that ranking isn't changing much. Here is the list starting with Jones, sans pitchers:

25. David Wright

24. Ryan Braun

23. Yasiel Puig

22. Bryce Harper

21. Adam Jones

20. Giancarlo Stanton

17. Buster Posey

16. Hanley Ramirez

15. Evan Longoria

14. Yadier Molina

13. Troy Tulowitzki

11. Carlos Gonzalez

9. Paul Goldschmidt

8. Joey Votto

6. Adrian Beltre

5. Robinson Cano

4. Andrew McCutchen

3. Miguel Cabrera

1. Mike Trout

You can argue that Jones is having a better year than Wright, Braun, Harper, Posey, Ramirez, Longoria, Gonzalez, Votto and Beltre.

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I think when you call a guy one of the best 15 position players in the game, you probably are considering more than just the current season. One thing I will say for Jones, he has been consistently good, especially over the last three seasons. In that time, fangraphs ranks him 18th in fWAR. So, I wouldn't say calling him a top 15 position player is a huge stretch, though I'd probably consider him more like top 25.

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I can remember Jones/Hunter comps almost from the day we got him. Interestingly, both have been overrated defensively. They really are pretty good comps though. I think Jones has more upside and can possibly step it up to that 40+ HR level.

According to fangraphs above he's 3rd best defensively among CFs...so are you alleging that he's been overrated defensively by the metrics?

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I think when you call a guy one of the best 15 position players in the game, you probably are considering more than just the current season. One thing I will say for Jones, he has been consistently good, especially over the last three seasons. In that time, fangraphs ranks him 18th in fWAR. So, I wouldn't say calling him a top 15 position player is a huge stretch, though I'd probably consider him more like top 25.

Especially since it would be foolish to treat those rankings as gospel or small differences as absolute. There is definitely big time variability with guys who are close.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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