Tim Pahuta Joins 32 MILB players to Sue over Wages

[Ohfan67]

Are minor league players forced to join Harrisburg' date=' PA's team against their will? If not, I don't get the comparison.[/quote']

It's about as relevant to the argument as Weam's suggestion that the current system having merit because it works for Harrisburg.

[DrungoHazewood]

But once again' date=' you're example involves the use of government force to create a true "monopoly." The government's monopoly on legalized force has created a situation where all other competitors have been legally outlawed. That isn't true of MLB. The fact that MLB puts out a product capable of satisfying consumer demand to the point where I don't sit around wishing there was another rival company, is not MLB's problem. It's not something we should hold against MLB. They can offer what they want. You can ask for what you want. And if it creates demand for another competitor within the workers of the industry, the consumers of the industry etc., you are free to start it up.[/quote']

That's a nice textbook economics view of the situation. But the reality is that it's impossible to form a new high-level professional baseball league in the US. And because of that you don't really know what consumer demand is, because we only have one flavor of high-level baseball to choose from. Maybe there's significant demand for a much faster-paced game, or for some other innovation. But we'll never know because of the impossibly high barriers to starting a new league.

[Ohfan67]

I'm not saying the lawsuit has a lot of merit, but paying someone unfair wages is not excusable by saying "well, the workers knew that before they took the job". The law is super clear about that.

[DrungoHazewood]

They can go work for the Southern Maryland Blue Crabs.

Yes, that's a real option. They're absolutely free to choose to work for the monopoly with a large signing bonus and the chance at eventually making $millions, or they can sign a non-guaranteed one-year deal with a low-level indy team for $3500 a year.

[SilentJames]

But it's all relative. The extent to which you are able to bargain for contractual terms' date=' is entirely dependent on your market leverage. You're right, I had none. But either do minor league players for the most part, because their demand still isn't THAT great. There's plenty of people who can stop in and fill the void of the 10 year journeyman that never made any money.[/quote']

No, they can't - not even at that level.

And they are professionally employed adults - there is no reason they shouldn't be paid a decent, respectable wage. There is no reason that a minor league ball player shouldn't be able to live a decent independent life being a minor league ball player.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm not saying the lawsuit has a lot of merit, but paying someone unfair wages is not excusable by saying "well, the workers knew that before they took the job". The law is super clear about that.

I am no legal expert by any means, but I have to think there's some validity to the idea that these guys are working 70+ hours many weeks and some are making less than $1000 a month. That's $3 or $4 an hour.

[Ohfan67]

I am no legal expert by any means, but I have to think there's some validity to the idea that these guys are working 70+ hours many weeks and some are making less than $1000 a month. That's $3 or $4 an hour.

Overall I agree. It's not right to pay people unfair wages. MLB can afford to pay a decent wage. But it's also unfair to compare being a minor league baseball player with working in a factory. It's not meant to be a career and shouldn't really be held to the same standards. I don't know the answer to the problem, but There needs to be some balance.

[Reboulet'sStache]

MLB's success is directly tied to the fact that in the 1870-1950 era they consolidated their power and systematically eliminated all other competitive leagues. When the American League popped up they merged. When the Federal League came into being they forced them out of business. In the 1920s they began forming agreements eliminating all independent minor leagues and teams, over the strenuous objections of people like Baltimore's Jack Dunn. When the PCL agitated for an open classification, and a clear path to becoming a new Major League, they immediately began moving teams and expanding. When teams started going rogue and competing with one another to pay amateurs big bonus money they instituted a draft. When J.D. Drew signed with an indy league rather than the team that drafted him, they changed the rules so that even players in other US professional leagues were draft-eligible.

All of this under the guise of the anti-trust exemption and with the government's support and approval. Baseball has a very long history of making sure they're the only (baseball) game in town.

From what I understand of the Federal League, it operated for one year, never turned a profit, and all the various owners jumped at the opportunity to cash out. Are you saying MLB shouldn't have allowed to offer the owners money for their teams? What would have stopped 6 or 7 other rich business men from starting teams the next year?

[Reboulet'sStache]

Yes, that's a real option. They're absolutely free to choose to work for the monopoly with a large signing bonus and the chance at eventually making $millions, or they can sign a non-guaranteed one-year deal with a low-level indy team for $3500 a year.

So the fact that MLB offers them something that other businesses in the industry can't, should be held against MLB? "You have created a product that allows that person their only avenue to wealth and fame, so you owe that person more." Is that the idea?

[Reboulet'sStache]

No, they can't - not even at that level.

And they are professionally employed adults - there is no reason they shouldn't be paid a decent, respectable wage. There is no reason that a minor league ball player shouldn't be able to live a decent independent life being a minor league ball player.

So if MLB folded tomorrow, and decided they didn't want to pay anybody anything, should they be allowed to do that? That seems like that would violate the minor league player's right to a decent independent living more than the current situation even does.

[Reboulet'sStache]

That's a nice textbook economics view of the situation. But the reality is that it's impossible to form a new high-level professional baseball league in the US. And because of that you don't really know what consumer demand is, because we only have one flavor of high-level baseball to choose from. Maybe there's significant demand for a much faster-paced game, or for some other innovation. But we'll never know because of the impossibly high barriers to starting a new league.

But these are all market barriers, right? Not "legal" barriers?

[MurphDogg]

Overall I agree. It's not right to pay people unfair wages. MLB can afford to pay a decent wage. But it's also unfair to compare being a minor league baseball player with working in a factory. It's not meant to be a career and shouldn't really be held to the same standards.I don't know the answer to the problem, but There needs to be some balance.

Wait, what? Labor is labor whether it is some guy who is paying to watch you sleep or you are lifting thousands of pounds of boxes an hour.

[mdbdotcom]

The independent Portland Mavericks played in the short-season Class A Northwest League from 1973-77. After embarrassing MiLB by breaking minor league ticket sales records, the PCL went back into Portland and MiLB decided that no unaffiliated team would ever play in an affiliated league again.

Netflix made a movie about them. Here's the trailer. [video=youtube;RA76b5Hhvxg]

[DrungoHazewood]

And they are professionally employed adults - there is no reason they shouldn't be paid a decent, respectable wage. There is no reason that a minor league ball player shouldn't be able to live a decent independent life being a minor league ball player.

That's a moral opinion, not a legal one. And even as a moral question you'd have to ask where you draw a line. Is minor league baseball player something necessary for society? What other jobs should you be able to live a decent indepenent life doing? All of them? Clearly there are many jobs that aren't economically sustainable and would have to be subsidized by someone to pay all the people who'd like to do them a living wage.

[DrungoHazewood]

But these are all market barriers' date=' right? Not "legal" barriers?[/quote']

I think it's somewhere in the middle. This clearly isn't a free market that features competition, and the government has done its fair share in seeing that sports leagues don't face competition. It would be very much easier to start a new league if the government didn't spend $billions on giving the Peter Angeloses of the world free stadiums, and tax breaks, and sweethart deals on revenues, and allowed anti-trust exemptions and territorial rights.

Don't pretend this is a case where everyone likes McDonalds so much that no one dares to build a Burger King next door. This is McDonalds and the gov't acting in concert for 140 years to make sure McDonalds is the only place that makes hamburgers.