Duquette and Trades

[billw76]

Bud Norris did a great job in 2013 and 2014.

I think his '14 was good. I think how awful he was in '15 kinda makes me forget that he was decent at one point for the rotation.

[Frobby]

What you almost have to look at there is did the trade serve the purpose at the time without diminishing the present value at the Major League Level. With that said, the Miller trade was perfect, the Parra trade was awful.

Well, that wouldn't be my criterion for judging the trade. By that logic, any trade of a minor leaguer for a major leaguer who actually produces as expected would be a good trade. And I'd say it depends on the quality of the minor leaguer(s) you are giving up and the degree to which you needed the major leaguer you got. Honestly, we needed a RF last year more than we needed a back-end reliever in 2014, and EdRod was probably a more valuable trade chip than Davies (though it's debatable). But Miller was likely to do a very good job in the 'pen, whereas Parra figured to regress from the career year he was having when we trade for him (though he actually was a lot worse than we should have expected). And, there's a question of whether the O's had a realistic playoff shot even if Parra had met expectations.

[weams]

I think his '14 was good. I think how awful he was in '15 kinda makes me forget that he was decent at one point for the rotation.

You know, when you are just trying to make the playoff with a team that has no ability to rejuvenate from the farm in the present, you just have to stop worrying about prospects. At least that is how I feel. We played the watch the farm game for a decade and a half.

[ChuckS]

Bud Norris did a great job in 2013 and 2014.

C'mon Weams. He was pretty bad in 2013 and our fourth or fifth best starter in 2014. I will concede 2014 but he had a 4.80 ERA after coming over here in 2013.

2015 was a disaster. That trade was an all-around disaster.

[weams]

C'mon Weams. He was pretty bad in 2013 and our fourth or fifth best starter in 2014. I will concede 2014 but he had a 4.80 ERA after coming over here in 2013.

2015 was a disaster. That trade was an all-around disaster.

We would give Harvey for a 4.8 ERA averaging 6 innings for this club.

[Frobby]

Bud Norris did a great job in 2013 and 2014.

I wouldn't call his 4.80 ERA in 2013 "great." He was a bit better than the pitchers he replaced in the rotation that year.

[weams]

C'mon Weams. He was pretty bad in 2013 and our fourth or fifth best starter in 2014. I will concede 2014 but he had a 4.80 ERA after coming over here in 2013.

2015 was a disaster. That trade was an all-around disaster.

That trade was not good over the long term. It did serve the purpose for both 2013 and 2014. That means it was good for those teams.

[weams]

I wouldn't call his 4.80 ERA in 2013 "great." He was a bit better than the pitchers he replaced in the rotation that year.

If you average out 2013 and 14 It's pretty darned good on the field.

[thezeroes]

At the time' date=' did anyone really think the trade was a bad one? I think people were calling for Arrieta and Strop to be DFA at the time.[/quote']

No truer words were ever written.

Jake Arrieta was given Multiple chances to turn the corner and was not trending in the right direction.

Pedro Strop had a hat issue that did nothing for is in-ability to get outs.

It was a trade that needed to be made at the time.

[thezeroes]

That Miller trade won an ALDS for the Orioles.

And not for the Detroit Tigers, who were also in the mix for Miller and with Rodriguez getting moved allowed the Orioles to get a player for a player that Detroit could not match.

[billw76]

You know, when you are just trying to make the playoff with a team that has no ability to rejuvenate from the farm in the present, you just have to stop worrying about prospects. At least that is how I feel. We played the watch the farm game for a decade and a half.

I agree. I'm not really worried about the prospects at this point if it means getting to the World Series. I just want DD to make the best trade possible, not just a trade for the sake of making a trade.

[Frobby]

If you average out 2013 and 14 It's pretty darned good on the field.

He didn't help us get to the playoffs in 2013. We might have made the playoffs without him in 2014.

I guess I just use "great" in a different way than you are using it. For the two years combined, he had a 3.92 ERA as an Oriole. That's solid enough. But I don't really lump the two years together. He was below league average as a starter for us in 2013, above league average as a starter in 2014, and beyond awful in 2015. He was an asset to the team that won the division title.

[JayThomas]

Nobody makes bad trades (or good ones) every time. Dan seems to be better at times of year when the other side doesn't have the leverage. I think on balance he has been too willing to give up young talent for rental players at the trade deadline.

No doubt. (But) there may be pressure from higher up to do so.

[ChuckS]

We would give Harvey for a 4.8 ERA averaging 6 innings for this club.

Just speculation, but I think Harvey would have to be part of a package for a TOR if he goes. Like Bundy, it makes little sense to sell low on these guys for (potentially) marginal upgrades.

Mancini will likely be gone. Sisco could be gone. Peralta, Mountcastle....guys like that.

[JayThomas]

I feel like people always forget this. If Miller was traded to the Tigers, the O's would not have been able to feast on their poor bullpen, as easily.

If the O's get Rich Hill or another top pitcher at the deadline, that blocks the Red Sox or a potential team the O's play in the playoffs.

Don't sure how I feel about trading away the few prospect the O's have but you have to take that into account.

We're not going to block any competition from getting what they want this year. Our system doesn't stack up with Boston's or Toronto's. Even if we could block them from getting their most coveted target we couldn't block them from the rest; and we can't really block them at all.