Is Sisco Toast?

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Philip said:

His WRC is 98, and a strikeout rate over 30%, which actually shows quite a bit of improvement, but 30% is still bad. His walk rate is below 9%. I don’t know how fast he is, but he looks like he’s slowed.

If he were good on defense, that would be playable. I was happy with Caleb Joseph doing half of that. But he doesn’t have any “game smarts” His snap judgment is bad, and he can’t throw.

wRC of 98 is above average for a catcher.   Out of 63 catchers with 100+ plate appearances, Sisco ranks 23rd.   League average at C is 86.    So his offense hasn’t been spectacular, but it’s decent for a catcher.   It’s the defense that’s the big issue.   

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

wRC of 98 is above average for a catcher.   Out of 63 catchers with 100+ plate appearances, Sisco ranks 23rd.   League average at C is 86.    So his offense hasn’t been spectacular, but it’s decent for a catcher.   It’s the defense that’s the big issue.   

His defense has really hurt the team in what, three games?

It's a 100 loss team that isn't going to be competitive next year and the team's best prospect is a catcher that should be ready in 2021.  The move to make is to grit your teeth and keep throwing him out there for the rest of the season and next.  You need someone to catch those innings.  Waste of resources to bring in anyone and the in house options (other than Severino) are even worse.

[Philip]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

wRC of 98 is above average for a catcher.   Out of 63 catchers with 100+ plate appearances, Sisco ranks 23rd.   League average at C is 86.    So his offense hasn’t been spectacular, but it’s decent for a catcher.   It’s the defense that’s the big issue.   

Yes that is all right, my point, and the point of many, is that his defense is so bad that his offense does not compensate for it.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His defense has really hurt the team in what, three games?

It's a 100 loss team that isn't going to be competitive next year and the team's best prospect is a catcher that should be ready in 2021.  The move to make is to grit your teeth and keep throwing him out there for the rest of the season and next.  You need someone to catch those innings.  Waste of resources to bring in anyone and the in house options (other than Severino) are even worse.

I don’t disagree with this.    Though I couldn’t say in how many games his defense has hurt us.   There have been 2-3 really obvious ones. Overall, his CERA is highest of the four catchers who have played with the O’s, though I think he was lower than Severino the first month or two that he was on the team.    I know CERA is very noisy, but it’s still discomforting to see a 6.30 CERA.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Philip said:

Yes that is all right, my point, and the point of many, is that his defense is so bad that his offense does not compensate for it.

Who are you going to bring in?  Are you going to expend resources for a place holder for a 100 loss team?  He isn't doing as much damage to the team as Wilkerson is in center.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

I don’t disagree with this.    Though I couldn’t say in how many games his defense has hurt us.   There have been 2-3 really obvious ones. Overall, his CERA is highest of the four catchers who have played with the O’s, though I think he was lower than Severino the first month or two that he was on the team.    I know CERA is very noisy, but it’s still discomforting to see a 6.30 CERA.

Those were the ones I was talking about.  Last night and the poor tagging his first week up.  He's not been so bad they can't put up with him next season.

I don't see folks asking if Wilkerson is toast.

[mdbdotcom]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Those were the ones I was talking about.  Last night and the poor tagging his first week up.  He's not been so bad they can't put up with him next season.

I don't see folks asking if Wilkerson is toast.

Wilkerson isn't warm enough to be toast.

[MurphDogg]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Those were the ones I was talking about.  Last night and the poor tagging his first week up.  He's not been so bad they can't put up with him next season.

I don't see folks asking if Wilkerson is toast.

Yep, Wilkerson dropped a routine fly ball yesterday with the bases loaded and didn't hit a home run, but sure Sisco lost the game singlehandedly.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Yep, Wilkerson dropped a routine fly ball yesterday with the bases loaded and didn't hit a home run, but sure Sisco lost the game singlehandedly.

Davis also had a defensive miscue if I remember correctly.  Somehow he's still getting at bats.

[spiritof66]

Like pretty much everyone else, I've been disappointed by Sisco's defense and offense. But I'm also a lot less enthusiastic about Severino's defense and offense than I was a couple of months ago. FWIW, I think Sisco has a decent chance to develop into a much better hitter than he's shown at the ML level so far. I just don't get why he can't handle some of the basic skills of catching after years of playing that position.

But despite that disappointment, I think catcher is a position where we can go with the status quo for a couple of years, sticking with Sisco and Severino while looking out for an opportunity to pick up a guy with better defense who gets dumped by another organization. (I've heard we've got a pretty good catching prospect already in the system.) From the little I've seen of Wynns, I don't think he'd be an improvement over what we might get from the two incumbents. And it's nice to have a LHed-hitting (or switch-hitting) catcher. An adjustment might be an order after next year, if we're going to be bringing up a bunch of talented pitchers much before Rutschman is ready.  And it's nice to have a LHed hitting catcher.

One exception. I've asked this question a few times in the past couple years, and I see an earlier poster has raised it, too: could Sisco become an adequate third baseman. I don't think his poor throwing from behind the plate is disqualifying. Since Sisco was a highly regarded catching prospect, I have to believe he has the raw arm strength to make the throws from third base.(One of the few things I know from my long-ago baseball experience, which included stints at both those positions, is that the throwing requirements are very different.) On the other hand, Sisco's lousy throwing certainly raises a question about his ability to play third, and I would think the frequent and extreme shifting by the Orioles puts a premium on decent range for all three non-1B infielders. 

[Can_of_corn]

It doesn't look like he will hit enough for third.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Three Run Homer said:

Was it my imagination or did Sisco stumble on both of the throws in the 8th inning last night?  Maybe it's his footwork rather than the arm strength that's the problem.  

A good throw definitely would have had the force at third on Merrifield's bunt.  I don't think there was any chance to get the force at second on the previous bunt, even with the catcher running--the runner had too good of a jump.  It was not just a poor throw by Sisco, but a poor decision (actually two poor decisions--the ball was rolling foul, and once he picked it up, he should have thrown to first).  

I agree on both. I think it's technique (footwork and release) in throwing, as well as bad technique in tagging, that messes him up.

And it was hard to tell, but on the first bunt I don't think the runner would have been out at second with a good throw, meaning a good Chance Sisco throw, not a Pudge Rodriguez throw.

[MurphDogg]

It was an aggressive play to throw to second and a tough hop (and a great stretch) by Villar, but if he had caught it, it would have been an out.

[Morgan423]

47 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

It was an aggressive play to throw to second and a tough hop (and a great stretch) by Villar, but if he had caught it, it would have been an out.

It was a terrible throw.  The fault on that play was 98% Sisco (from the bad decision to pick up an obviously-rolling-foul sac bunt in the first place, to not going to first to get the easier out, to that throw).  The pick on Villar's end was not easy, even for a skilled major league infielder... I don't really blame him at all on that play.

[MurphDogg]

21 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

It was a terrible throw.  The fault on that play was 98% Sisco (from the bad decision to pick up an obviously-rolling-foul sac bunt in the first place, to not going to first to get the easier out, to that throw).  The pick on Villar's end was not easy, even for a skilled major league infielder... I don't really blame him at all on that play.

I wasn't blaming him, it was a tough hop and a poor throw. I was responding to the idea that if Villar had made the catch the runner would have been safe which is incorrect. I don't have video of it that I can post but I watched the replay several times and the runner would have been out.