Comparing Astros/Orioles.

[scOtt]

1 hour ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

....yep, right out of a trashcan 

 

[scOtt]

1 hour ago, oriolediehard said:

We have some pitching prospects almost ready, that could be the difference and hope for the future.

From several interviews with Elias, hearing him talking about all the minor league arms he inherited, I think he's very surprised with the quality and numbers of good arms we really do have.

[Orioles0615]

6 hours ago, 7Mo said:

Yes, but remember Altuve and Springer weren't Altuve and Springer until the Astro's sprinkled their magic developmental dust on them. 

There’s not much magic in pine tar and trash cans 

[LA2]

1 hour ago, andrewochs615 said:

There’s not much magic in pine tar and trash cans 

What's the trash can reference?

[sportsfan8703]

7 hours ago, 7Mo said:

If you want to grab on to something positive, Ramon Laureano.

The Astros gave away Laureano for Brandon Bailey. Clearly a bad value trade.

Elias just picked up Bailey for a Rule 5 pick. Bailey won't need to produce a lot to justify the value.

But you're right. It's the process. It's not one trade, but a way of operating over a series of trades/picks/signings. It'll take time.

The Laureano trade was the Astros having to get something of value before they lost Laureano in the Rule 5. So they chose to get a guy like Bailey that wouldn’t be Rule 5 eligible for a few seasons. Then they lost him. 

So what can you do as a GM?  Which OF should they have released off of their 40 man for Laureano?  

It wasn’t a bad trade. Just some bad luck and this is what happens when you have a good 40 man. 

[spiritof66]

4 hours ago, LA2 said:

What's the trash can reference?

https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/13/more-footage-seemingly-shows-astros-cheating-in-2019-by-banging-on-trash-cans-video/

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/13/more-footage-seemingly-shows-astros-cheating-in-2019-by-banging-on-trash-cans-video/

Wow.... Disappointing

[LA2]

2 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/13/more-footage-seemingly-shows-astros-cheating-in-2019-by-banging-on-trash-cans-video/

Wow. Something's got to be done about that.

[hoosiers]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 8:49 PM, Philip said:

I find it utterly unimaginable that we cannot find a better starter, or reliever, than Hess. He must be the placeholderist of placeholders, because we just need to find arms/legs/breathing to have a better producer.

I am sure if Elias wanted to find a better pitcher and put him in an Orioles uniform and set him on the mound that Elias would do that.  Elias is tanking - he is trying to lose.  

AM did the same thing without really vocalizing it.  He would add veteran Steve Traschel and bring up AAAA types in order to watch us lose.

It is all very strange to watch - trying to put at least a competent team on the field that is designed to lose a lot and yet develop individual players to perform at their very best.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, hoosiers said:

I am sure if Elias wanted to find a better pitcher and put him in an Orioles uniform and set him on the mound that Elias would do that.  Elias is tanking - he is trying to lose.  

AM did the same thing without really vocalizing it.  He would add veteran Steve Traschel and bring up AAAA types in order to watch us lose.

It is all very strange to watch - trying to put at least a competent team on the field that is designed to lose a lot and yet develop individual players to perform at their very best.

My point is that even if you don’t care about terrible pitchers, you want BETTER terrible pitchers. All last season I was saying we should give a guy a chance and then send him on his way and give another guy a chance. Hess has had lots of chances and failed miserably. Send him on his way, even if the next guy isn’t better he can hardly be worse. Ynoa, Yacabonis, Brooks, Eshelman, and several others had a chance. Hess had myriad chances. I remember Hyde bringing him in in relief and wondering how long till his first homer. Never very long...

[sportsfan8703]

16 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

https://www.totalprosports.com/2019/11/13/more-footage-seemingly-shows-astros-cheating-in-2019-by-banging-on-trash-cans-video/

If they did it in the playoffs they’re done. The punishments will be harsh. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

On 12/14/2019 at 12:37 AM, scOtt said:

From several interviews with Elias, hearing him talking about all the minor league arms he inherited, I think he's very surprised with the quality and numbers of good arms we really do have.

I don't think the Orioles have had a problem drafting good arms, they just have failed to develop the talent or traded it away. Elias fixing the pitching is key to the rebuild. Buying the arms gets very expensive. 

[sportsfan8703]

4 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I don't think the Orioles have had a problem drafting good arms, they just have failed to develop the talent or traded it away. Elias fixing the pitching is key to the rebuild. Buying the arms gets very expensive. 

Houston got pretty good deals for Verlander and Cole. 

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I don't think the Orioles have had a problem drafting good arms, they just have failed to develop the talent or traded it away. Elias fixing the pitching is key to the rebuild. Buying the arms gets very expensive. 

 

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Houston got pretty good deals for Verlander and Cole. 

It’s fine to buy the occasional arm. But we still need to develop our share.  It looks to me like Elias is very focused on that.    And he inherited some pretty good arms in our MiL system.   The O’s had overhauled their own pitching selection and development systems in the two years before Elias arrived, after Wasdin took over as MiL pitching coordinator.   Holt seems terrific, but I think Wasdin also did a very nice job in that role.    There was a terrific article about it that I’ll try to find. 

[sportsfan8703]

22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s fine to buy the occasional arm. But we still need to develop our share.  It looks to me like Elias is very focused on that.    And he inherited some pretty good arms in our MiL system.   The O’s had overhauled their own pitching selection and development systems in the two years before Elias arrived, after Wasdin took over as MiL pitching coordinator.   Holt seems terrific, but I think Wasdin also did a very nice job in that role.    There was a terrific article about it that I’ll try to find. 

It obvious the Elias prefers NCAA arms. I think he’s looking for those 5-20th round NCAA SPs that are “undervalued”. Guys that we could potentially “fix” with coaching and analytics. 

I’ve only seen Elias operate, and I can only go by what Houston’s org looks like now to try and draw a conclusion, but it looks like the thinking is to target BPA bailable bats early on in the draft versus pitching. Maybe the thinking is that the 1st & 2nd rd pitchers are so heavily scouted that there isn’t much hidden value there. Plus there’s more inherent risk with a pitcher. 

I think that Martin and Hancock are 1-2 for us. If Martin is there, that kind of fits what Houston has done recently, but I don’t think we’re passing on Hancock for Torkelson/Gonzalez. 

From a development standpoint what is easier, going to 4S/Curveball combo or completely reworking a swing and approach?  My guess what be is it’s easier to fix things with pitchers. Which leads to a theory of take the bats early and the pitchers in the mid rounds.