Where do Kjerstad/Westburg fit on the 2023/24 team

[wildcard]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So the players having some small degree choice means the system is broken?

Also when is the last time a baseball player held out? 

Scott Boras as agent for Mark Appel rejected the Pirates bid.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/02/07/stanford-pitcher-mark-appel-defends-scott-boras-rejecting-pirates-offer-3/

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

1) They should have to be 2 years out of HS. I believe that is the way the NBA is doing it right?

2) what ... are you even reading my posts? I said that MLB should work with the NCAA to come up with a system that’s mutually beneficial.

A system that sends most high school players to college would benefit the NCAA. 
 

3

 

You do know that the college teams have 13 full scholarships to offer in basketball (a full roster).  College baseball teams have 11.7 full scholarships.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Scott Boras as agent for Mark Appel rejected the Pirates bid.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/02/07/stanford-pitcher-mark-appel-defends-scott-boras-rejecting-pirates-offer-3/

First off that's 2013 and secondly that wasn't what I meant by holding out.  Football players under contract hold out.  When is the last time you've seen a baseball player under contract refuse to come to camp?  It happens but it's a lot more rare.

[waroriole]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

1) They should have to be 2 years out of HS. I believe that is the way the NBA is doing it right?

2) what ... are you even reading my posts? I said that MLB should work with the NCAA to come up with a system that’s mutually beneficial.

A system that sends most high school players to college would benefit the NCAA. 
 

3

 

NBA was one year, they’re about to go back to drafting straight out of HS because it’s a farce to force kids to go to college when they don’t wanna be there. Plus with the limited number of baseball scholarships, you’re just screwing over the kids that do wanna be there. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

As mentioned the process is broken when it forces a GM to take a player that’s not the BPA

I don’t think Elias was forced to do anything.    He chose the strategy he thought was best for the team.    If it doesn’t work out, he should be held accountable.    

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, waroriole said:

NBA was one year, they’re about to go back to drafting straight out of HS because it’s a farce to force kids to go to college when they don’t wanna be there. Plus with the limited number of baseball scholarships, you’re just screwing over the kids that do wanna be there. 

Partial scholarships are going to hurt the economically disadvantaged that want to use baseball as a means of going to college.

I am sure that one year of education at Duke or Kentucky does those players a world of good. 

I think the only reason they are forcing the kids to go to college was that they didn't like the bust rate or kids out of HS.  Kwame Brown anyone?

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

As mentioned the process is broken when it forces a GM to take a player that’s not the BPA

Oh for crying out loud. This is still about you knowing who the GM should take better than he does? Has any part of you thought to maybe back down, or just heels completely dig in?

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

1) They should have to be 2 years out of HS. I believe that is the way the NBA is doing it right?

2) what ... are you even reading my posts? I said that MLB should work with the NCAA to come up with a system that’s mutually beneficial.

A system that sends most high school players to college would benefit the NCAA. 
 

3

 

The NBA does one year.     And that system sucks IMO.    I think baseball, with a history of signing kids out of high school that goes back to long before the draft was started, and which signs Latin American players at 16, would look ridiculous if they suddenly dictated that players can’t be signed until a year or two after high school.     And there’s definitely not enough college scholarships to cover all the kids who would have to wait.   

[waroriole]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Partial scholarships are going to hurt the economically disadvantaged that want to use baseball as a means of going to college.

I am sure that one year of education at Duke or Kentucky does those players a world of good. 

I think the only reason they are forcing the kids to go to college was that they didn't like the bust rate or kids out of HS.  Kwame Brown anyone?

Oh completely agree. With the G League now, some of the top kids are skipping college all together. NBA has no reason to do what’s in the best interest of the NCAA. The NCAA has to get with the times and find out a way to pay some of these kids or college hoops is gonna look a lot like college baseball. 

[survivedc]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

As mentioned the process is broken when it forces a GM to take a player that’s not the BPA

Elias was in no way forced. He seemingly understands, unlike you, that team building isn’t a linear process. Sometimes you take BPA (Rutchman) sometimes you take someone close to BPA and get better guys later.

The NBA especially and the NFL to a degree are star driven leagues. One guy can and frequently does completely change a game. For better or worse that is harder to accomplish in baseball. The system needs a lot of talent and that what Elias did. 
 

Also, comparing money in the MLB draft to NFL/NBA is disingenuous at best.

[BohKnowsBmore]

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So instead of taking the BPA available at #2, they trade down to #10.  When they trade down they get something in return right?  Like maybe a couple of second round picks?

The value of picks from one sport to another varies but that is essentially what the Orioles did here. 

Don't be too hard on RT here, apparently some folks paid to write about baseball have trouble with the concept...

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-draft-2020-grades-mets-cardinals-rays-earn-a-for-solid-hauls-yankees-red-sox-among-worst-marks/

Quote

Confusing draft for the Orioles. They used the No. 2 pick on slugger Heston Kjerstad, our No. 17 prospect, and it appeared they would sign him below-slot and use the savings on a top high school talent that fell to one of their later picks. The O's instead took safe-ish college hitters in Competitive Balance Round A (Jordan Westburg) and the second round (Hudson Haskin). It wasn't until the fourth and fifth round, when they popped high schoolers Coby Mayo and Carter Baumler, that the other show dropped. Good players, all of them, but the Orioles held the No. 2 pick and didn't land a truly elite prospect. Feels like they could've had a very similar draft with the No. 15 pick. 

 

[DirtyBird]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

No ... but they trade out in order to recover the lost value. 
 

In the NFL, the Ravens are the perfect example. 
They want the 10th best player and have the #2 pick. They simply slide back to 6-8 slots and get extra value. The #2 overall is worth substantially more than the #10

You are comparing baseball to a sport where pretty much all picks in the first 3 rounds make the NFL roster.

Don't you understand what a ridiculous comparison that is?

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

So instead of taking the BPA available at #2, they trade down to #10.  When they trade down they get something in return right?  Like maybe a couple of second round picks?

The value of picks from one sport to another varies but that is essentially what the Orioles did here. 

No ... The orioles selected at their previously assigned slots. The Ravens get additional selections. Big difference.....

The Ravens would end up with an additional player or two. Or have dealt for future capital.
 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

No ... The orioles selected at their previously assigned slots. The Ravens get additional selections. Big difference.....

The Ravens would end up with an additional player or two. Or have dealt for future capital.
 

 

So the O's traded the #2, #103 and #133 for #8, #48 and #50. 

Same thing.

You can't expect to get similar value for MLB picks that you get for NFL picks.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Don't be too hard on RT here, apparently some folks paid to write about baseball have trouble with the concept...

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-draft-2020-grades-mets-cardinals-rays-earn-a-for-solid-hauls-yankees-red-sox-among-worst-marks/

 

I don’t agree with the strategy. Suggestions by posters here that Martin and Kjerstad are similarly rated is boulder dash. 
 

The Orioles went below slot in order to find the additional 2 million they overpaid for their 4th and 5th rounded. 
 

The percentages say that about two thirds of the 1st round guys will be meh at best. So it will be easy to judge if their 1st rounder was the correct one very soon. 

I like the odds that Martin will be a better MLB player than Kjerstad. 
 

Bur then we will have to wait another 3-5 season to fully grade the approach.

As I said in an older thread. I don’t buy into the Elias hype. He’s done what he’s was good at IMO. That was fixing the minor league system, bringing the scouting and development staff out of the Stone Age, and fixing the international process. 
 

I didn’t like the return for Cashner. I thought he gave away Villar. I haven’t been impressed with the 2 drafts and a monkey could’ve drafted Adley Rutschman with the 1st pick.