Frederick Dropped

[DrinkinWithFermi]

12 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Was hoping to continue that tradition with my kid.

Likewise, man. Likewise. Sharing the same seats (at least the same spot if not the literal same physical chairs, which may have been replaced since the 90s) with my future kid that my dad and I used to sit in (which I totally remember since they were end-of-aisle front row seats right behind the dugout) and root for future Orioles like him and I used to do would have been pretty incredible. Stupid Coronavirus.

[LTO's]

40 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I suspect that is the case as well, but I don't discount the people that Tony talks to who say otherwise. I think that the people saying that truly believe that, but my guess is, some of those people will find themselves with bravery and courage they didn't know that they had and will overcome their fears when the team is good. 

I have moral qualms about supporting professional football, unfortunately the Ravens have one of the most exciting QBs to watch and I tune in anyway. If the Ravens were bad, I wouldn't watch and I would proudly declare my moral superiority. I think the situation with Tony's friends is probably similar.

 

Yeah I mean I'm sure some people have reservations about coming into the city from the suburbs to watch a game. I just don't know how much is due to genuine fear that they and their family will be attacked or murdered. I'd say that's pretty rare. The one thing that I never got with this argument is that the riots and general issues of Baltimore never stop opposing Yankees, Red Sox, Nationals, Cubs etc. fans from flooding Camden Yards. You would think that with Baltimore having this poor reputation opposing team's fans would seek other avenues to watch their team. As a season ticket holder I've talked to plenty of opposing teams' fans who come down with their family every year to watch a game and genuinely enjoy it. The Os should try being good again soon so this argument can die out!

[Number5]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

Until they prove me wrong by not doing, I'm sticking this time table:

2018 -- win total was in the 40s

2019 -- win total was in the 50s

2020 -- win total pro-rated to a total in the 60s

2021 -- in the 70s (or pro-rate to 70 if we play a shorter season)

2022 -- in the 80s, which probably means we might be on the fringe of contention based on how far into the 80s we get or whether we start fast and ifnish slow to reach our 8? wins or whether we start slow and finish fast to get there

2023-- shoot for the 90s!   That means contending

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I'll stick to hoping for that trend to continue until it's obvious it won't.   Each year we see more young players on the roster.

So by 2030 we will win them all!  

[Number5]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

And yet, in 2019 Frederick drew 263 k and Bowie only 224 k.    And that’s not just a one-year phenomenon.

 

I think that a considerable number of the 263K came from Montgomery County.  I live in Montgomery Co. and we would take the kids to Keys games several times a year when they were growing up.  A lot of our friends did the same.  It wasn't the O's, but it was a fun time nonetheless.  Closer and cheaper, too.  We probably went to about the same number of Keys games as O's games.  We did get to Bowie a couple of times total over the years, and had fun, but it was just too far for a minor league game to go with any regularity.  If we were going to travel that far, might as well see the O's.  My guess is that families in Montgomery Co. will pretty much forego minor league baseball altogether now, with the Frederick decision.  

[Roll Tide]

Quote

Fred. Keys Updates
@KeysUpdates

---

I’ve been at work all day trying to keep up with all the Keys news. I’m sad about it. I like the Keys being affiliated with the Orioles. I was reminiscing on pictures I took with players years ago and now I’m BIG sad....

 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

Yeah, population dropped 13.1 percent between 1960 and 1970 11.5 percent between 1990 and 2000. 4 percent is not high by recent historical standards, as I said.

The homicide rate is up since 2014, fortunately it has been consistently at 0.0 among suburbanites visiting the city to watch an O's game.

BTW, just to set the record straight, I don't personally think it's unsafe to go to an Orioles game if you park at a stadium lot.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, LTO's said:

Anyone who is "afraid" to come watch an Os game at Camden Yards is not worth taking seriously. Period. It is very safe to go to a game and that's not an opinion. They, like all of the other more fair weather fans, will be back when the Os are good again but I hope i don't have to sit anywhere near them. If you don't want to spend the money to watch a game - fine. If you don't want to watch a team that isn't competitive - fine. But blaming the city really is just the most pathetic excuse.

Ah, the old "everyone who disagrees with my point of view is pathetic". You should take a hard look into the mirror because your hypocrisy is glowing. Whether you want to believe there not a perception problem or not does not mean people don't believe there is and it's not pathetic at all if people have done their own risk assessment and decided to not go into the city. 

 

 

[forphase1]

3 hours ago, LTO's said:

Anyone who is "afraid" to come watch an Os game at Camden Yards is not worth taking seriously. Period. It is very safe to go to a game and that's not an opinion. They, like all of the other more fair weather fans, will be back when the Os are good again but I hope i don't have to sit anywhere near them. If you don't want to spend the money to watch a game - fine. If you don't want to watch a team that isn't competitive - fine. But blaming the city really is just the most pathetic excuse.

Wow.  Simply wow.  The facts are many fans aren't willing to come to the city any longer.  Growing up my Grandparents, who had a house on the Chesapeake Bay with a Baltimore address but did not live in the city limits, would often take me to games at Memorial Stadium and later to Camden Yards.  My Grandfather was a Baltimore cop and my Grandmother was a nurse at John Hopkins until they retired.  They loved the city, and are the reason I'm an Orioles fan today.  But in their last years of life (my Grandfather died 2 years ago and my Grandmother last year) they stopped going to games because they did not feel it was safe any longer.  They were still very active in their community and did pretty much everything else they had always done, but the trips to Camden Yards and the Inner Harbor area ended as they didn't view it as worth the risk.  I was sad because I wanted my kids to have the same interactions with their Great-Grandparents as I once had.  Yet you claim that folks like them shouldn't be taken seriously, and that their opinion on the safety, or lack thereof, around the stadium makes them a fair weather fan.  SHM.  Well, you are entitled to your opinion as well.  But as an extreme outsider (My house is about 7 hours from Camden Yards) Baltimore certainly has recently acquired a reputation for being an unsafe place to visit.  Glad to know that fans with that opinion aren't welcome.

[scOtt]

4 hours ago, eddie83 said:

And obviously vice versa going to Orioles games. Someone from Frederick area can hop on 70. Much longer from the shore. 

Not pertaining to Delmarva v. Frederick, but Frederick fans can also hop on 270 and go to DC.

I'm not impartial because I live 40-ish miles west of there but Frederick is definitely O's Territory. (For now...) Certainly is here in Wayne'sBar and Hagerstown which I'm closest to (12 miles.) Gettysburg, Hanover, York, everything north and west of there.

[LTO's]

57 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Ah, the old "everyone who disagrees with my point of view is pathetic". You should take a hard look into the mirror because your hypocrisy is glowing. Whether you want to believe there not a perception problem or not does not mean people don't believe there is and it's not pathetic at all if people have done their own risk assessment and decided to not go into the city. 

 

 

The "problem" that you speak of is completely baseless and those that have spoken their concerns to you are just flat out ignorant of the facts.  Again, it being safe to go to a game at Camden Yards is not my opinion. It's a fact. The people that have convinced themselves that South Baltimore is basically a favela are beyond reason and I don't have to take that opinion seriously. I'll continue to go to over a dozen games a year with friends and family and continue to experience 0 problems. They can continue to live in fear. 

[accinfo]

5 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

 

Whether you want to admit it or not, or whether it's even reality, but Baltimore has huge perception problem right now. That is going to affect the attendance of baseball games. Rightfully or wrongfully, until the perception issue is solved in some manner, I don't see the average attendance ever going over 30K again (something that only has happened once since 2005).

 

 

I think cities in the US have perception problems similar to Baltimore.  Because of the positive urban renewal of most cities in the years at the end of the 20th century ball parks were built in downtown areas because that had become the in place to go.  Many people worked downtown, many young people moved into cities, etc.  The pandemic has changed how we work forever with so much more remote working.  Fans that spend the most money for sports live outside the cities more and more again.  Issues with business located in downtown areas is going to be a very long-term problem for many years to come. Not just for baseball teams.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, accinfo said:

I think cities in the US have perception problems similar to Baltimore.  Because of the positive urban renewal of most cities in the years at the end of the 20th century ball parks were built in downtown areas because that had become the in place to go.  Many people worked downtown, many young people moved into cities, etc.  The pandemic has changed how we work forever with so much more remote working.  Fans that spend the most money for sports live outside the cities more and more again.  Issues with business located in downtown areas is going to be a very long-term problem for many years to come. Not just for baseball teams.

Oh I completely agree. The problem runs much deeper than just Baltimore or baseball, just we're focusing on them because it's our city and our team.

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, fitzi22 said:

Oh and by the way this “Draft League” idea seems kinda dumb.  It’s kinda like an Arizona fall league but for guys who aren’t drafted yet.  I give it a coin flip that it will succeed.  That being said I’m sure they are thrilled the #1 attendance Carolina League team will be part of it, maybe even anchor it.

I don’t know about the long term success of the Draft League, but it could be extremely important in this upcoming season, if the college season starts late or many games are missed.    Hopefully by May covid is mostly in the rear view mirror, and these guys could get in a lot of games before the draft, which isn’t taking place until the all-star break.   Could be fun to pop over to Frederick and see some draft-worthy college talent. 

[Kim Smoltz]

I think it’s laughable and misinformed to blame Orioles attendance on Freddie Gray. Everyone knows where violence is in this city, and it’s not Camden Yards, and a couple days years ago doesn’t change that.  I don’t go to Orioles games because they’re horrible and they don’t even play a lot of young players.  Maybe if they just stopped trotting out 28 year old retreads, I would.  I don’t know a single person who has said city violence is a reason they don’t go to Orioles games, which includes a wide breadth of people from different areas.  But I don’t run in the conspiracy theory circle, clearly.  Not sure what this has to do with them dumping a team in Frederick though. Baseball is business, especially now that short term financial losses are a reality.

[Frobby]

Let’s keep this on Frederick and the Keys, shall we?   The issue of Baltimore’s attendance drop and the reasons for it have been discussed a million times.   (Yes, I’m equally guilty of getting into that tangent on this thread.)

Keys GM Dave Ziedelis is putting a positive spin on Frederick’s move to the MLB Draft League:

Like all affiliated minor league teams, whose 2020 seasons were canceled by the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, the Keys suffered major economic losses this year. And Ziedelis painted the Keys’ downgrade to a collegiate league — featuring top draft-eligible prospects, with a 68-game schedule and confined to the late spring and summer months — as a positive development.

“That 34-game home schedule is the sweet spot for us — it’s summer, school is out, the weather is good,” Ziedelis said in a telephone interview. “In the past, our players came from the Orioles. Now our players will be pre-draft college players, who will wind up playing for various major league organizations. … The feedback we’re getting from fans and sponsors is tremendous. Everyone’s excited. Life is a journey, and this is the next chapter in the journey.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/12/09/minor-league-baseball-invites/%3foutputType=amp