NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

[Sports Guy]

He’s right.  Whether they are moving in the right direction or not is irrelevant to the point he seems (I am not seeing the whole thing in context) to be making.  
 

It’s embarrassing that they are putting some of the guys on the field that they are.

The only thing i will say is that I hope this scout has said the same thing about all the other embarrassments we have seen over the last several years.

[Moose Milligan]

Whatever.  No one said it was going to be done overnight.  And we lost a year last year to see where a lot of our minor leaguers would be.  2021 probably would look very different if all those guys had a real minor league season.  I know, I know, RUTSCHMAN AND GUNNAR LOOKED GREAT AT THE ALTERNATE SITE but no one can make me believe that it was a great substitute for real games against real competition.

And it's not embarrassing, no one cares about the Orioles outside of the few diehards that are on message boards like this one.  Everyone knows all anyone cares about in the AL East is the Yankees and Sox and to a lesser extent, the Rays.  We're not on anyone's radar and quite frankly I get the feeling that if MLB dissolved the Orioles that NL GM wouldn't care.

But it would be highly embarrassing for a team like the Yankees or Sox to be this bad for this long.  Teams in major media markets get attention for being bad, there are always articles written focusing on when a team like the Mets are going to turn it around.  Teams in mid media markets get ignored for being bad.  No one cares if the Orioles are bad and how long they're bad for except us.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, Ripken said:

I've long thought the next compete date was April, 2022.  With a good year of development and spending some money in the winter this could be a fun team next season.  I'll add, in this division especially, you really need to build right and the system Elias took over was a total disgrace.

However, if we're losing 100 games next year and/or AR is still in the minors, I will have serious problems with ME.

This is how I'm looking at it too. 2021 is going to be a bad year and trying to patch this year with some bandaids doesn't help anything long term. 2022 is when the Orioles should really start showing signs of life and if next year is another 95+ loss disaster, then Elias is going to be on the hot seat. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

This is how I'm looking at it too. 2021 is going to be a bad year and trying to patch this year with some bandaids doesn't help anything long term. 2022 is when the Orioles should really start showing signs of life and if next year is another 95+ loss disaster, then Elias is going to be on the hot seat. 

Is he?

If he keeps costs down and profits high do you think Ownership is going to want him gone?

Or do you mean the Oriole Hangout hot seat? 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Whatever.  No one said it was going to be done overnight.  And we lost a year last year to see where a lot of our minor leaguers would be.  2021 probably would look very different if all those guys had a real minor league season.  I know, I know, RUTSCHMAN AND GUNNAR LOOKED GREAT AT THE ALTERNATE SITE but no one can make me believe that it was a great substitute for real games against real competition.

Dateline March 4, 2018 : Teammates talk up Tillman’s simulated game

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is he?

If he keeps costs down and profits high do you think Ownership is going to want him gone?

Or do you mean the Oriole Hangout hot seat? 

What profits with no one in the seats?

Oh right, MASN money!  Sweet glorious MASN MONEY!

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Dateline March 4, 2018 : Teammates talk up Tillman’s simulated game

Quote

They were honest reviews

 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Whatever.  No one said it was going to be done overnight.  And we lost a year last year to see where a lot of our minor leaguers would be.  2021 probably would look very different if all those guys had a real minor league season.  I know, I know, RUTSCHMAN AND GUNNAR LOOKED GREAT AT THE ALTERNATE SITE but no one can make me believe that it was a great substitute for real games against real competition.

And it's not embarrassing, no one cares about the Orioles outside of the few diehards that are on message boards like this one.  Everyone knows all anyone cares about in the AL East is the Yankees and Sox and to a lesser extent, the Rays.  We're not on anyone's radar and quite frankly I get the feeling that if MLB dissolved the Orioles that NL GM wouldn't care.

But it would be highly embarrassing for a team like the Yankees or Sox to be this bad for this long.  Teams in major media markets get attention for being bad, there are always articles written focusing on when a team like the Mets are going to turn it around.  Teams in mid media markets get ignored for being bad.  No one cares if the Orioles are bad and how long they're bad for except us.  

No, he’s right..it’s embarrassing to the sport.  It’s embarrassing to any sport.  Tanking isn’t a bad thing..in fact, I would encourage it especially in the NFL and NBA.

However, tanking doesn’t and shouldn’t take as long as these teams draw it out.  Fans have been fooled into thinking it needs to take this long but it’s just a way for owners to line their pockets a little longer.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

What profits with no one in the seats?

Oh right, MASN money!  Sweet glorious MASN MONEY!

When revenue sharing is more than payroll ownership does. 

Quote

In Major League Baseball, 48% of local revenues are subject to revenue sharing and are distributed equally among all 30 teams, with each team receiving 3.3% of the total sum generated. As a result, in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot. Teams also receive a share of national revenues, which were estimated to be $91 million per team, also in 2018.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Revenue_sharing

 

Let's see the 2017 team had a payroll of ~183M and an attendance of a bit over 2M.  The 2019 club had a payroll of ~80M and an attendance of 1.3M.  Which team had the higher profits I wonder?

No matter how bad the product a certain amount of tickets will be sold. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is he?

If he keeps costs down and profits high do you think Ownership is going to want him gone?

Or do you mean the Oriole Hangout hot seat? 

Attendance continues to remain very low and cord cutting accelerates the bottom line might not look so good. I realize this is the Orioles so prevailing wisdom does not alway apply. 

[Redskins Rick]

33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why can't both be embarrassing?

Look I was down with the rebuild, it needed to be done.

But it's gone on long enough and the emphasis need to move from saving money to actually building a team that can compete.

I can agree with you more, you said it very well.

Those are my own thoughts too, and I am sure, we are not alone.

[Tony-OH]

31 minutes ago, interloper said:

What's embarrassing is that the previous regime buried its head in the sand trying to compete 2 or 3 years beyond their window, completely ignoring the international market out of some phony PA principle, didn't invest in analytics, and created this situation where it requires a complete tank-fest teardown in order to build a farm system and international operation worthy of most other teams in the game. Elias has been straight about that. The Orioles over-extended themselves and they are paying the bill now. 

This is 100% on point. The Orioles have not been consistently relevant as a contender since the early 80s and the only way to fix that was to completely break down and redo how they do business from the scouting, analytics, and development stages. 

Elias is doing just that, and although it's been painful, and we're looking at another painful one this year most likely unless some kind of "why Not?" thing occurs, it was needed. The Orioles can't spend their way out of this like this did in the late 90s due to the cash cow that Camden Yards was when it was new and the internet barely existed (Yet the Hangout did. . lol). 

I'm happy with how I see the Orioles being rebuilt, but the proof will start needing to be seen on the field by next season when there should be no reason that the pitching staff, outfield, and catcher don't have a players who could be part of a winning future here in Baltimore.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Attendance continues to remain very low and cord cutting accelerates the bottom line might not look so good. I realize this is the Orioles so prevailing wisdom does not alway apply. 

I think I addressed.that.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

No, he’s right..it’s embarrassing to the sport.  It’s embarrassing to any sport.  Tanking isn’t a bad thing..in fact, I would encourage it especially in the NFL and NBA.

However, tanking doesn’t and shouldn’t take as long as these teams draw it out.  Fans have been fooled into thinking it needs to take this long but it’s just a way for owners to line their pockets a little longer.  

Well what are the other options?  Lying to your fanbase that THIS IS THE YEAR like the Orioles did to us from '98 to 2011?  Pretending like they've got a shot this year?

It takes as long as it takes, quite frankly I'm not exactly worried with how long this is taking.  I was born in late '81, this team has been $#%& for practically my entire life with a few blips on the radar here and there.  Miss me with the THEY NEED TO CONTEND NOW talk, I don't care if it's this year or next, so long as it happens.  I've been conditioned for my entire life to realize that they'll always be mediocre to terrible, anything else is a pleasant surprise.

 

 

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Attendance continues to remain very low and cord cutting accelerates the bottom line might not look so good. I realize this is the Orioles so prevailing wisdom does not alway apply. 

Attendance is down across most of MLB, even playoff teams.

Team's profit margin is no longer met or broken because of ticket sales or lack of.