Could the O's "eat" Contracts

[MarCakes21]

11 hours ago, wildcard said:

2/17m for a good field/no hit SS that blocks Westburg and Gunnar from SS in 2023.

IF they're both ready.  And IF he's great, then we can always flip him as well.  And, stability on the field which we don't have.  And, if they're shedding salary, you may get something else of value in return.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

IF they're both ready.  And IF he's great, then we can always flip him as well.  And, stability on the field which we don't have.  And, if they're shedding salary, you may get something else of value in return.

Does anyone outside of Wildcard still think Gunnar can stick at short?

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

IF they're both ready.  And IF he's great, then we can always flip him as well.  And, stability on the field which we don't have.  And, if they're shedding salary, you may get something else of value in return.

With a 9m salary in 2023 and a 2m buyout of his 2024 option, that is 11m.   Instead of getting anything of value back in trade I think you will be paying some other team to take him if Elias could find any takers at all.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Does anyone outside of Wildcard still think Gunnar can stick at short?

I haven’t given up on it, based on comments of A and A+ coaches in BA’s top 20 writeups.   It’s more likely Westburg ends up the SS.  None of that is too relevant as to whether to pick up DeJong.   

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Does anyone outside of Wildcard still think Gunnar can stick at short?

Gunnar is 20 and very athletic. Its hard to rule anything out at this point.

[Sports Guy]

DeJong was a 3-4 WAR player prior to 2020.

In 2021, Busch Stadium was the hardest hitters park in the league.  It’s always been a tough park to hit in.

He has a solid but not great walk rate.

2021 isn’t indicative of the type of player he is.  He had a 216 BABiP and yes some of his batted ball stats were down but still, he’s not that bad. And even with a down year, he was still a 1.5 WAR guy.

He just turned 28.  When the Os obtained Hardy, he was also 28.  He was also coming off 2 straight down years.  And Hardy didn’t exactly light it up offensively when he was an Oriole but his defense was huge. 
 

DeJong is a very similar player.  He is signed to a very team friendly deal and is a good player to “take a chance on”.  He undoubtedly will be worth his contract in 2022.  I agree there is a chance he’s not in 2023 but either he is still here as your starting SS or you could pay some of his deal and move him.  The upside outweighs the downside imo.

[Jammer7]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gunnar is 20 and very athletic. Its hard to rule anything out at this point.

I agree. Gunnar and Westburg are still filling out. They are both SS’s until they are not. I would also mention Joey Ortiz being in the SS mix. 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gunnar is 20 and very athletic. Its hard to rule anything out at this point.

Yep you are right..you also can’t rule out that he flames out and becomes nothing…which is precisely why you don’t sit around and wait and hope, which is what so many of you want to do.

[Frobby]

40 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

DeJong was a 3-4 WAR player prior to 2020.

In 2021, Busch Stadium was the hardest hitters park in the league.  It’s always been a tough park to hit in.

He has a solid but not great walk rate.

2021 isn’t indicative of the type of player he is.  He had a 216 BABiP and yes some of his batted ball stats were down but still, he’s not that bad. And even with a down year, he was still a 1.5 WAR guy.

He just turned 28.  When the Os obtained Hardy, he was also 28.  He was also coming off 2 straight down years.  And Hardy didn’t exactly light it up offensively when he was an Oriole but his defense was huge. 
 

DeJong is a very similar player.  He is signed to a very team friendly deal and is a good player to “take a chance on”.  He undoubtedly will be worth his contract in 2022.  I agree there is a chance he’s not in 2023 but either he is still here as your starting SS or you could pay some of his deal and move him.  The upside outweighs the downside imo.

More or less what I’d say.  There’s some downside here based on how DeJong has hit the last 1.37 seasons, but there’s upside if he bounces back, even if he doesn’t bounce back all the way.    The defense will be good for sure.   It’s a bit riskier than the Hardy deal, but not a huge risk in the grand scheme of things, and the upside potential is worth it.

As to Westburg/Henderson being blocked, I’ll worry about that problem after they ace AA and perform solidly in AAA for a couple of months.   There’s no guarantee they’ll both do that.   If they do, that’s a great problem to have and we’ll deal with it then.   
 

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

More or less what I’d say.  There’s some downside here based on how DeJong has hit the last 1.37 seasons, but there’s upside if he bounces back, even if he doesn’t bounce back all the way.    The defense will be good for sure.   It’s a bit riskier than the Hardy deal, but not a huge risk in the grand scheme of things, and the upside potential is worth it.

As to Westburg/Henderson being blocked, I’ll worry about that problem after they ace AA and perform solidly in AAA for a couple of months.   There’s no guarantee they’ll both do that.   If they do, that’s a great problem to have and we’ll deal with it then.   
 

Yea, it’s a little riskier because DeJong has the second year guaranteed.  The first year it’s essentially the same Money.

It’s a risk worth taking imo.  You could have him as long as 4/42 and that is a steal for an above average SS, which is what his upside is and what he has been for most of his career.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

 

  I agree there is a chance he’s not in 2023 but either he is still here as your starting SS or you could pay some of his deal and move him.

I doubt seriously that if Elias thinks he would have to pay to deal him that he would acquire him.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I doubt seriously that if Elias thinks he would have to pay to deal him that he would acquire him.

It’s not a certainty, not necessarily a likelihood either.   It’s a risk.   Not really a huge one when your payroll is as low as the Orioles’ is.

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I doubt seriously that if Elias thinks he would have to pay to deal him that he would acquire him.

Well, if he does acquire him, I’m sure he wouldn’t think that way.  It would be idiotic if he did.  
 

However, the option would be there and it’s not overly risky to do so.  Worst case scenario is you cut him for 9M.  Not the end of the world.  They just paid a similar amount of money to trade Cobb.  
 

His defense alone will likely be worth the 9M.

[Sports Guy]

Get him into a better hitters park and my guess he gets back to his pre 2020 offensive levels.

IF (big if) the players we have develop and if at least one of them can stay at SS, DeJong could become one hell of a trade asset.

The likely worst case scenario (besides obviously getting hurt or something like that) is he that he has some kind of a year like 2021…crappy offense but solid defense.  He was still “worth” 12.5M in 2021.  

[MarCakes21]

I also personally like Keuchel.  Not the best option in OPACY but I think he has some bounce back potential, leadership potential, and the Sox will likely want to shed salary.