Rougned Odor 2022

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

We’ll have a better basis to discuss this when the season is over and we know how players have performed over a longer period of time and whether they got called up or not.  

I asked his current opinion based off the data we have available. 

Seemed pretty simple.

[foxfield]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't believe that.

Do you think that is the only criteria in play?

I believe so yes.  I don't think every decision is based on gaming the money.  I believe, if healthy AR would have been here opening day.  I believe, right or wrong, the current leadership has specific things they want to see with players as they progress through the minors to the majors.  I believe that they have shown a willingness to promote early.  I believe that not every day a player is not at the ML level is not about contract manipulation.  I believe, if I can say so without trying to be political, that there should be a constitutional amendment banning the DH.  I believe that the Angelos family and how it has run this franchise has smashed your expectations such that you seek and expect the worst of every single decision.  I believe, that even as the franchise improves, it is closer than we think to moving beyond Peter Angelos and that along with the improving franchise gives me something to believe in.

I believe that.

[DrungoHazewood]

24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I remember Odor was considered a good comp for Schoop at the time.  There was talk of whether we should offer Schoop a comparable deal.   Schoop has been by far the better player, but he’s never earned more than $8.5 mm in a season.  

I know the baseball world is a different place than when I was forming opinions of what a batting line should look like, but even in 2016-2022 a 7:1 K:BB ratio should set off claxons.

You have to be pretty unbelievably good to be an above-average MLB hitter with 25 walks and 150 Ks.

[btdart20]

There are at least 3 lenses to view the 2B decision through:  maximizing the player value, maximizing organizational value, competitiveness

1. How do they maximize the Odor signing?  Do they think they can get something for Odor?  Maybe/maybe not.  But trading him is the only way to get anything long term out of Odor.  The trade deadline is likely the magical line in the sand for the Odor Decision. 

2. Organizationally who else?  Jones has played 16 games at Norfolk.  Grenier and Vavra have 15 games logged.  Long has 10.  Westburg has 7.

Jones - .212/.339/.343 = nope

Grenier - .207/.335/.283 = nope

Long - .211/.318/.276 = nope

Vavra - .323/.423/.451 - missed 4/21-5/30.  Rehabbed in A+ from 5/31-6/5.  Babip in AAA is pretty inflated (.378 before 4/21 and .400 after 6/5).

Westburg - .330/.356/.660 in 101 PAs.  Even if they look beyond the SSS and think he's statistically ready, are they organizationally ready?  My guess is they give Vavra a shot first after the trade deadline.  Then maybe a cup of coffee for the last few weeks if he's still hitting.  

3. Competitiveness?  Odor has provided a few fun moments (game winning hits, a few good throws, etc.) and has been a great cheerleader.  Beyond that, he has provided very little to hang our hats on as a contributor.  Even his defense is pretty bad overall (-5 OAA, -4 RAA, -1 UZR).  With maybe the exception of the tough to measure/isolate double play factors.  None of that should prevent us from moving forward without him (and brings us back to the first two lenses).

If we want to be competitive, we have to win as many positional head-to-head battles vs. our opponents as we can.  Right now, 2B is losing (especially in division).

Per Fangraphs:

NYY - Torres (1.6 WAR)

BOS - Story (1.8 WAR)

TOR - Espinal (1.8)

TB - Paredes (1.7)

BAL - Odor (0.1)

 

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know the baseball world is a different place than when I was forming opinions of what a batting line should look like, but even in 2016-2022 a 7:1 K:BB ratio should set off claxons.

You have to be pretty unbelievably good to be an above-average MLB hitter with 25 walks and 150 Ks.

He was a star on the Buck teams, enough contact-to-damage even David Stearns wanted him a little, but also telling to me in his Brewers pennant race and postseason he played his way to the bench.

I still can't really wrap my brain around OAA thinking he is by far MLB's best defender YTD.    Second baseman at 30 falling off a cliff is a pretty well-established pattern.

Sentimentally reassembling the band, I have wondered if 2023 Schoop would be an improvement on Vavra or an Odor-Urias platoon if the thoroughbreds indeed can cover 3B/SS.    Realistically, probably more chance Schoop-Odor are just plain out of the league in another year or two.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Just Regular said:

He was a star on the Buck teams, enough contact-to-damage even David Stearns wanted him a little, but also telling to me in his Brewers pennant race and postseason he played his way to the bench.

I still can't really wrap my brain around OAA thinking he is by far MLB's best defender YTD.    Second baseman at 30 falling off a cliff is a pretty well-established pattern.

Sentimentally reassembling the band, I have wondered if 2023 Schoop would be an improvement on Vavra or an Odor-Urias platoon if the thoroughbreds indeed can cover 3B/SS.    Realistically, probably more chance Schoop-Odor are just plain out of the league in another year or two.

Schoop had an interesting day yesterday, 6 for 8 with 1 rbi and 1 run scored.

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

He was a star on the Buck teams, enough contact-to-damage even David Stearns wanted him a little, but also telling to me in his Brewers pennant race and postseason he played his way to the bench.

I still can't really wrap my brain around OAA thinking he is by far MLB's best defender YTD.    Second baseman at 30 falling off a cliff is a pretty well-established pattern.

Sentimentally reassembling the band, I have wondered if 2023 Schoop would be an improvement on Vavra or an Odor-Urias platoon if the thoroughbreds indeed can cover 3B/SS.    Realistically, probably more chance Schoop-Odor are just plain out of the league in another year or two.

Schoop has always been a very strange second baseman.  Listed as 6' 1", 247 and with a very strong arm.  Historically someone with that description is almost always a 3B/RF. He's like a Nap Lajoie, who was 6' 1" and a listed 195 which was huge for 100 years ago. Lajoie played before the shift in the defensive spectrum in the 1920s where second and third switched places after bunts became a lot less common and third became the hitter's position.

Anyway, I can see Schoop being put in a lot of interesting places with shifts, and his arm allows him to make plays other second basemen couldn't.  But if he keeps OPSing .561 nobody is really going to care.

[DrungoHazewood]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Schoop had an interesting day yesterday, 6 for 8 with 1 rbi and 1 run scored.

Not often that you can raise your batting average 16 points in one day in July.

[sportsfan8703]

Does September playing time count against the service time clock?

[Beysbol]

I honestly have no idea what they're going to do with Odor. I really don't think any team would want him? I don't know as much as you guys, but I just don't see a trade of him. Probably might finish out the season here. I would actually like that, being an Odor fan and liking the signing when Baltimore did get him, but don't want him taking up a spot that one of our guys down at AAA could have. 

[sportsfan8703]

Nice back handed play and throw to help get Akin out of that jam last night. Then of course, the game tying HR. 

[emmett16]

Maybe they DFA him today so he can end his Baltimore tenure on a high note after last nights game tying HR?  One can hope.  Pretty sure the guys in the dugout, who have been playing with Westburg the last two years, would be pretty excited to have him on the team.  The Ra Ra nonsense is great for TV sound bites, but I don’t but into it too much.  Making plays in the field and hitting the ball is gonna win you more games.  

[forphase1]

I don't believe in 'clutch' and I know he's been average to poor overall. But if nothing else he's left me with a handful of good memories like the home run last night. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I don't believe in 'clutch' and I know he's been average to poor overall. But if nothing else he's left me with a handful of good memories like the home run last night. 

He sure wasn't clutch on defense.

[forphase1]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He sure wasn't clutch on defense.

Nope, and I'm looking forward to seeing him off the team, sooner rather than later.  But, being honest, I've gotten more 'positive' things from him than I expected.  Again, overall I know the numbers are bad, his defense is poor, etc.  I'm not trying to overstate his ability or impact on the team.  I'm just saying that he's came up big in a handful of situations, enough to give me more positive memories from his time in Baltimore than I expected.