Henderson, Hall, Westburg, and Stowers - Potential unintended consequence of the new service time rules?

[Sports Guy]

35 minutes ago, geschinger said:

There will be no chance of sustained success from the Orioles if their general manager starts making decisions to double down on extremly low probability positive outcomes today at the expense of higher probability positive outcomes in the future.  

A lot wrong with this but not worth the discussion.

[geschinger]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't know.

Mountcastle win the AAA MVP and gets sent home when rosters expand and doesn't get called up the next season until he is eligible for a 7th season.

Seems to me it was a service time issue.

Do you honestly think he'll still be an Orioles regular in 2025? 

The amount of time he would have needed to be kept down in 2020 was 7 days.  My recollection was he was down a lot longer than that making it seem like more than service time. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, geschinger said:

Do you honestly think he'll still be an Orioles regular in 2025? 

The amount of time he would have needed to be kept down in 2020 was 7 days.  My recollection was he was down a lot longer than that making it seem like more than service time. 

Nope and that's the point.

There was a small chance for gain by postponing his debut and he did it anyway.

How many right handed DH/1B guys do you want to pay arb 4 prices for?

 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That seriously does bother me.

It isn't right.

We wouldn't accept it in any other field of endeavor.

But if you want to defend the poor, defenseless current billionaires....

I don't want to defend the owners.  There is a loophole in the system and GM's and owners use it to their advantage.  However, taking advantage of that loophole also is advantageous for the team I root for, IMO, so it's no skin off my nose.   As a fan, I'm okay with getting an extra year of service time for someone who plays on my team.   I would think any fan would be.   Don't you want Henderson with this team as long as possible (sound the horns for the 10 year contract you proposed last year.  Another dead horse!).

 

P.S.  Do we really want to compare baseball to other fields of endeavor?   LOL

Edited August 9, 2022 by RZNJ

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't want to defend the owners.  There is a loophole in the system and GM's and owners use it to their advantage.  However, taking advantage of that loophole also is advantageous for the team I root for, IMO, so it's no skin off my nose.   As a fan, I'm okay with getting an extra year of service time for someone who plays on my team.   I would think any fan would be.   Don't you want Henderson with this team as long as possible (sound the horns for the 10 year contract you proposed last year.  Another dead horse!).

 

P.S.  Do we really want to compare baseball to other fields of endeavor?   LOL

Sure.

Why not?

What's the annual salary cutoff for you to stop caring?

I know it's not more than 700K. 

 

I'm not suggesting that team control should be abolished just that teams should operate in good faith.  Don't you want your employer to operate in good faith?

[RZNJ]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Sure.

Why not?

What's the annual salary cutoff for you to stop caring?

I know it's not more than 700K. 

 

I'm not suggesting that team control should be abolished just that teams should operate in good faith.  Don't you want your employer to operate in good faith?

You keep wanting to compare MLB to the real world.  Get over it.   It's not the same.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

You keep wanting to compare MLB to the real world.  Get over it.   It's not the same.

Do you live is some kind of odd state of existence where you don't consider athletes actual human beings?

That's not healthy.

 

[NCRaven]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That seriously does bother me.

It isn't right.

It was in the last CBA and it’s in the new CBA.  You keep making this a moral issue and it’s not.  There’s no moral right or wrong that the players themselves were willing to fight for.  In fact, they were willing to settle for some minor adjustments that will likely have little impact on the situation.  If the MLBPA doesn’t make this a moral falling on our swords issue, I don’t really understand why you are so hung up on it.

I wish this wasn’t a thing, but neither involved party cares enough to do anything about it.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

It was in the last CBA and it’s in the new CBA.  You keep making this a moral issue and it’s not.  There’s no moral right or wrong that the players themselves were willing to fight for.  In fact, they were willing to settle for some minor adjustments that will likely have little impact on the situation.  If the MLBPA doesn’t make this a moral falling on our swords issue, I don’t really understand why you are so hung up on it.

I wish this wasn’t a thing, but neither involved party cares enough to do anything about it.

There are lots of things that folks/employers can do but shouldn't do.

Doesn't mean we should just shrug.

I'd rather if the team I rooted for did better.

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you live is some kind of odd state of existence where you don't consider athletes actual human beings?

That's not healthy.

 

Where did you get the idea that I don't consider athletes to be human beings?   That's a terrible thing to insinuate.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Where did you get the idea that I don't consider athletes to be human beings?   That's a terrible thing to insinuate.  

You are the one saying that are not part of the real world.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

You are the one saying that are not part of the real world.

Sports Leagues are not run the same way your average Fortune 500 company is.    That's not the same as saying athletes aren't human beings.  I mean, really!  LOL

[7Mo]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure.

Why not?

What's the annual salary cutoff for you to stop caring?

I know it's not more than 700K. 

 

I'm not suggesting that team control should be abolished just that teams should operate in good faith.  Don't you want your employer to operate in good faith?

Is there a team in baseball that operates as you suggest?

[geschinger]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

There are lots of things that folks/employers can do but shouldn't do.

Doesn't mean we should just shrug.

I'd rather if the team I rooted for did better.

Most employers aren't a part of a collective where it's so clearly a zero sum game.  For the Orioles to win another team has to lose.  

Issues like service time manipulation need to be addressed at the league level and the new CBA is a start in the right direction.  I'd like to see them go further.  But I'm kind of a radical - I'd like them to eliminate arbitration and make players FAs much sooner - greatly increase the number of FAs etc...   What I don't want is the Oriole to engage in unilateral disarmament and put themselves at a competetive disdvantage by not taking advantage of opportunities they have to increase their odds of winning.

Edited August 9, 2022 by geschinger

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, 7Mo said:

Is there a team in baseball that operates as you suggest?

Padres seem to.  Giants.  Dodgers.

Blatant service time manipulation isn't that common.