Henderson, Hall, Westburg, and Stowers - Potential unintended consequence of the new service time rules?

[clapdiddy]

11 minutes ago, geschinger said:

In a perfect world, yes.  Is that something you think Hyde would actually do?  I don't. 

I'm thinking it would be more of a platoon situation.  Hopefully, Urias would get more of the time, though.

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, geschinger said:

In a perfect world, yes.  Is that something you think Hyde would actually do?  I don't. 

I think he would play the better players.  He doesn’t have access to the better players now, so he has to play worse players.

[geschinger]

7 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I'm thinking it would be more of a platoon situation.  Hopefully, Urias would get more of the time, though.

Yep, this would be my expectation.  I'd be surprised if Odor still didn't start at least a couple of times a week.

 

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think he would play the better players.  He doesn’t have access to the better players now, so he has to play worse players.

If that were the case, why isn't Vavra the everyday  2B already?

Edited August 10, 2022 by geschinger

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, geschinger said:

Yep, this would be my expectation.  I'd be surprised if Odor still didn't start at least a couple of times a week.

 

If that were the case, why isn't Vavra the everyday  2B already?

They could but they have the at bats for Vavra anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.

And I agree Odor would still play a game or 2 a week.  In some cases, that’s fine.  

[BohKnowsBmore]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The first part is true. 
 

The second part isn’t.  What you do in a small sampling of games isn’t indicative of what will happen for a full season.

It certainly could end up not mattering.  We could wait 2 weeks and still make the playoffs and normally, I would be for all of these types of things…but winning matters more.

BTW, he’s not the only player involved in this.  Stowers and Hall as well.  

Elias said he tried to make the current team better at the deadline.  He failed to do that. Obviously he saw value in getting better.  See the value now and get better.

But your expectation for any sample of games should be guided by what you believe his underlying true talent level to be. If he’s already good enough to represent a clear upgrade in expected performance over guys on the roster across 12 days, then you would have to believe he has significant chance at winning RotY next year (and that goes for all of the guys you mentioned). 

[sportsfan8703]

Calling up Stowers and having him play COF/DH, while Vavra takes over for Odor is the compromise solution. Is Vavra really that bad on defense that we could use him the first 6-7 innings then bring in Odor as a defensive replacement?

The lineup vs RHP could then be,

Mullins L CF

Vavra L 2B

AR S Catcher

Santander S DH

Mountcastle R 1B

Hays R RF

Urias R 3B

Stowers L LF

Mateo R SS

Odor, McKenna, Nevin, Chirnos

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

But your expectation for any sample of games should be guided by what you believe his underlying true talent level to be. If he’s already good enough to represent a clear upgrade in expected performance over guys on the roster across 12 days, then you would have to believe he has significant chance at winning RotY next year (and that goes for all of the guys you mentioned). 

I don’t know if I would say significant.  But of course he has a chance.  But that chance doesn’t outweigh my desire to field the best team possible every single night for the rest of this season.

I value winning over that potential 2024 pick.

[DenaOsHon]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes.  We could have brought him on April 25 and he still would have 6 years of time.

Does Arb play a role with Gunnar? Boras is his agent so he isn't gonna sign deal till he hits FA if he is indeed the stud we all think he is. Do we delay that a year if we wait till he is under the 45 days or that doesn't matter?

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, DenaOsHon said:

Does Arb play a role with Gunnar? Boras is his agent so he isn't gonna sign deal till he hits FA if he is indeed the stud we all think he is. Do we delay that a year if we wait till he is under the 45 days or that doesn't matter?

I’m not waiting until mid to late April of next year to call him up.  
 

Again, winning has to start to matter, not this service time bs.  We have to start valuing the reason you are supposed to play the game.

Baseball teams don’t exist so they can game service time and say that they lay claim to the #1 farm system.  They exist to win and make money.  Go win and make money.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by Sports Guy

[DenaOsHon]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m not waiting until mid to late April of next year to call him up.  
 

Again, winning has to start to matter, not this service time bs.  We have to start valuing the reason you are supposed to play the game.

I meant this year. Get under 45 days this year and bring his ass up so he still has rookie eligibility next year. That White Sox series at home looks like a good time to bring him up.

[geschinger]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know if I would say significant.  But of course he has a chance.  But that chance doesn’t outweigh my desire to field the best team possible every single night for the rest of this season.

I value winning over that potential 2024 pick.

I want GH up later this month but I don't see it as necessarily being a net positive for a playoff run.  You seem to have a strong belief that it absolutely is.

What are you seeing with GH that gives you the confidence that he won't have an initial ~25-30 game acclimation phase where he's bad like other young top prospects were (JRod, Witt).  If his first 25-30 games are anything like theirs were he is not a net positive to the O's 2022 playoff chances.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, geschinger said:

I want GH up later this month but I don't see it as necessarily being a net positive for a playoff run.  You seem to have a strong belief that it absolutely is.

What are you seeing with GH that gives you the confidence that he won't have an initial ~25-30 game acclimation phase where he's bad like other young top prospects were (JRod, Witt).  If his first 25-30 games are anything like theirs were he is not a net positive to the O's 2022 playoff chances.

Maybe..but the defense is likely an improvement.  
 

And sure, he likely needs to get his feet wet and could struggle..which of course is also why he should get his at bats this year.

He also could come up, have a good OBP and play good defense.  Manny didn’t light the world on fire in 2012 with his bat.  But his total game was a net positive for the team.  
 

It won’t  be hard for him to be better than Odor.

[LookinUp]

 

[LookinUp]

So the Braves have called up their top guy. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Second time this year they've brought up a top prospect directly from AA.