The Third Base Market - Ramon Urias Trade Speculation

[Just Regular]

I do think Mateo and Urias are guys when they fit in trades are more natural in lateral moves with other Win Now clubs.

They aren't pieces a Club moving through an Orioles style (pretty much only OAK right now, until the next one declares itself) transition is going to value.

[Roll Tide]

5 hours ago, turtlebowl said:

I am fine with Benintendi for the reason you said, increasing our OBP. He is also an above average defensive player so that is a huge plus. 
 

You could also look at it from the perspective that Vavra possibly could put up similar numbers at a minimum cost. Again this is why this off season is so interesting because none of these decisions seem obvious because of the internal options which are still risky because of the unknown.

Vavra should’ve played second everyday once he was called up. I’m not sure he has enough power to keep defenders honest in the OF. Outside of Rutschman I doubt we’re getting a .365 OBP from anybody.

Imagine having 

Cf Mullins .330

LF Benintendi .370

SS Correa .365

C Rutschman .365

DH Santander .320

3B Henderson.350

RF Vavra .340

2B Urias .330

And a 1B who can give you a solid .330

 

The Orioles big problem is Mountcastle, Mateo, Stowers, and Hays were just over .300 OBP which is sad.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Roll Tide

[LookinUp]

16 hours ago, turtlebowl said:

I don't like the idea of spending 30 million+ per year when you may have close the the equivalent in one of the players you are willing to move that would be making league minimum. 

I was where you're at, but after reading Tony's profiles I'm starting to think it's time to cash in on the prospect shine through trades while getting bona fide stars in via FA.

We're more likely to win with bona fide stars than we are with emerging good players.

But I freely admit those bona fide stars might not actually be stars moving forward, and it's possible our prospects actually turn into stars. That's why we pay Elias I guess.

[Just Regular]

The spins on a couple of the non-tenders who are 3B alternatives from BP.

I figure Anderson and Candelario will still at least get their Josh Harrison or Jordan Lyles $$$ even if less than Arb would have given them, so a Urias buyer in the near term might need to really care about cost.

3B Brian Anderson elected free agency.

Anderson recorded DRC+s between 104 and 108 every season from 2018-2020, while bouncing between corner outfield and third base. That’s a useful piece on any team, and made him a borderline headline on the Marlins. His dropoff began in 2021 (93 DRC+) and continues in 2022 (90), and his non-tender was presaged by the acquisition of Joey Wendle, and the subsequent reduced playing time (also due to injury). When healthy, one imagines he’d fit quite well on a contender as a four corners type defensively who won’t hurt you much as a bat.

3B Jeimer Candelario elected free agency.

Just a year ago, Candelario was considered a cornerstone of what would be the next great run of Detroit Tigers teams. Then 2022 happened, and forced everyone to take stock of all parties. You can see some frustration at play in the third baseman’s lack of swing selection, and the effect it had on his line drive rate, which powered those league-leading 41 doubles of 2021. Some enterprising team is going to take advantage of this buy-low situation.

 

[btdart20]

15 hours ago, Just Regular said:

I do think Mateo and Urias are guys when they fit in trades are more natural in lateral moves with other Win Now clubs.

They aren't pieces a Club moving through an Orioles style (pretty much only OAK right now, until the next one declares itself) transition is going to value.

This is what I'm thinking too using a broad definition of "Win Now".  The current state of SS and 3B on teams matter.

AL East - Only Boston is potentially a match IF they can't re-sign Bogaerts.  NYY - 2B/3B (doubt it)?

AL Central - CHW - 2B/3B?  DET - 3B?

AL West - SEA - 2B/3B (rumored to be in on big $ SS to play 2B)?  LAA - 2B/SS (could use a bump at a discount)?

NL East - ATL - SS if they don't re-sign Swanson (but they have an internal option too)?  MIA - 3B/SS/2B?  PHI - SS?

NL Central - CHC - SS (rumored to be in line for a big $ SS)?  CIN - 3B (tons of IF prospects in the pipeline - doubt they're shopping)?  MIL - 2B/3B (chatter about them trading Wong and they could shift Urias to 2B)?  PIT - 2B?  STL - SS?

NL West - ARI - 3B?  COL - who knows what they'll do?  SFG - SS/3B (rumored to be in the big $ SS market)?  

 

 

[Just Regular]

Thinking about the winter and July, some of why I'm keener to see $$$ instead of trade capital utilized is the lack of inventory after last offseason's quick OAK and CIN moves.

Extra playoff berths lower the bar....apart from OAK in the end stages of its Las Vegas process, is anyone not Win Now.    Washington?    We constrain ourselves there, but fortunately for now they don't seem to have anything we'd want.

The Tigers in '23 with many important pitchers sidelined...what will new GM do?    Was his song to ownership to get that the job more like "we can salvage Baez-Eduardo-Torkelson" or an Elias-ian "y'all done messed up real bad"?    Second one, Eduardo is another Bassitt-Eovaldi-Taillon type pitcher for next few seasons.     Colorado or Milwaukee?

A few rosters will bust as always by July....hopefully not ours.

[orioles22]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:05 AM, Aristotelian said:

But he can't hit even close to average.

I doubt  moving to second  helps him hit any better. I just don't get why anyone thinks the Orioles should move their best defender off short. Makes no sense to me. He either plays short for the Orioles or for someone else.

[yark14]

2 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I was where you're at, but after reading Tony's profiles I'm starting to think it's time to cash in on the prospect shine through trades while getting bona fide stars in via FA.

We're more likely to win with bona fide stars than we are with emerging good players.

But I freely admit those bona fide stars might not actually be stars moving forward, and it's possible our prospects actually turn into stars. That's why we pay Elias I guess.

 

[Aristotelian]

58 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I doubt  moving to second  helps him hit any better. I just don't get why anyone thinks the Orioles should move their best defender off short. Makes no sense to me. He either plays short for the Orioles or for someone else.

Did anyone say that? I think the idea would be to keep him as a utility player, where he would have a lot of defensive versatility. The question is whether anyone will give us anything back in trade when he is a career .225/.645 hitter. If not, he could have more value to us as a backup 2B/SS/pinch runner.

[orioles22]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:24 PM, Camden Yards said:

Why not just play Urias at 3B, Gunnar at SS, and Mateo at 2B. Westburg serves as the utility guy. 

I think this was the original post where moving Mateo to second was suggested, but I've seen it several times. I suppose Mateo could be a utility guy, but I would imagine he always would play short with someone else moving to second. Some of you guys would have tried to put Belanger in left field.

[jamalshw]

17 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I think this was the original post where moving Mateo to second was suggested, but I've seen it several times. I suppose Mateo could be a utility guy, but I would imagine he always would play short with someone else moving to second. Some of you guys would have tried to put Belanger in left field.

I agree. The bulk of his value is in his defense with the rest in his speed. That is only useful to the team as the starting SS or utility player/pinch runner. 

[NCRaven]

I could see Mateo as a very useful utility IF/OF given some winter ball reps at multiple positions.  I don't think his bat carries as a starter anywhere.

[Sports Guy]

Btw, I’m good with trading both of these guys and signing Brian Anderson if he can be had on the cheap.

He has been a very good player in the past.  Good defense, solid OBP guy.

If these guys represent higher value and you can optimize that and then replace them with Anderson, I think that’s a pretty solid deal for us.  Anderson because a uti guy and an insurance policy for the young kids.

[interloper]

I don't know if Urias will get the team an upgrade at SP via trade, but he definitely could get us some help for the bullpen. Which I think is an overlooked area of need. It really depends how teams see him - is he a late-blooming starting 3B/2B? Or is he a utility guy who had a great year despite the .305 OBP?Either way, there should be plenty of teams who would be happy to have him start. Or some contending teams looking to upgrade at UIF. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by interloper

[Camden Yards]

6 hours ago, orioles22 said:

I think this was the original post where moving Mateo to second was suggested, but I've seen it several times. I suppose Mateo could be a utility guy, but I would imagine he always would play short with someone else moving to second. Some of you guys would have tried to put Belanger in left field.

The Orioles are trying to better their team. You look at all possibilities. If they keep all three and plan on playing all three, then what is best for the TEAM? Is it Mateo SS, Gunnar 3B, Urias at 2B or is Urias 3B, Gunnar SS, and Mateo at 2B? Both Urias and Mateo have done it for one year and other teams quit on them. Are they going to play at that level or better each year? Who knows! I trust Mike Elias on making the decision. I really could care less which way he goes as long as we are improving!

Lets get some stud pitchers and I might give you a shot Oriole22 at an infield spot!