Inf prospects to CF?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

That makes sense, but  by the time they figure that out then Holliday may be ready to take over. Perhaps Ortiz is good enough to move Holliday to second.

Or maybe Holliday busts, or gets injured, or has to move to the outfield, or gets traded.

He's a great prospect, I like his chances, but you can't write his name into the lineup in Ink just yet.

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't move a top prospect off his most valuable defensive position because of a kid who played 12 games in A ball (four at 2B).

I agree with this, and curious for the MLB reveal what the Orioles think Gunnar is.    It might be the Club's thought you can train for MLB SS adequately with just a fraction of minor league games there, and it is just load management.    Not what anyone growing up on Ripken is used to.

Whatever taste I have for hoping they let him settle in at 3B is because the handling might also be he doesn't project there.    Its good news if the last few years have just been a science project and he's going to be a plus shortstop!

He should lead off.

 

[orioles22]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or maybe Holliday busts, or gets injured, or has to move to the outfield, or gets traded.

He's a great prospect, I like his chances, but you can't write his name into the lineup in Ink just yet.

True. That's one reason why I suggested him in the trade for an ace. We know more what to expect from Ortiz after last season in AA/AAA. I'd rather lock Gunnar in at third long term though with all the other infield candidates who probably wouldn't be as good at third.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, orioles22 said:

True. That's one reason why I suggested him in the trade for an ace. We know more what to expect from Ortiz after last season in AA/AAA. I'd rather lock Gunnar in at third long term though with all the other infield candidates who probably wouldn't be as good at third.

You do realize that Shortstop is the position with the greater defensive value right?  Why are you seemingly insistent that Gunnar play at third when it is still very possible he can stick at short?

Has Mayo played himself off of third?

[orioles22]

Not sure why you would ask such a condescending question when I have been respectful of your opinions and agreed with much of what you said. I would like to see how Tony would rate the defense of Mateo/Gunnar/Ortiz/Westburg at short and how they compare at this point.

 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Not sure why you would ask such a condescending question when I have been respectful of your opinions and agreed with much of what you said. I would like to see how Tony would rate the defense of Mateo/Gunnar/Ortiz/Westburg at short and how they compare at this point.

 

I'm not being condescending, I'm actually curious.  He's the teams best prospect, he plays one of the most valuable defensive positions and you seem to want to move him off without giving him a chance to stick there.  This isn't Mountcastle where everyone was saying he had to move.

It isn't just about the defense.  Jeter's defense was pretty bad at short and yet he was passable enough there that his bat got him into the Hall.

If Gunnar's offense is significantly better and his defense is marginally worse he's the better choice.

 

Edit- ohh the other part.  Yea sorry that's how I frame questions. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Can_of_corn

[orioles22]

I agree he is our best player, other than Adley. My point is that I think he would better at third and Ortiz or Mateo are better at short. It's 100 percent about the defense in my argument. As long as he's in the lineup, let's get our best defense out there every day.

[orioles22]

53 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not being condescending, I'm actually curious.  He's the teams best prospect, he plays one of the most valuable defensive positions and you seem to want to move him off without giving him a chance to stick there.  This isn't Mountcastle where everyone was saying he had to move.

It isn't just about the defense.  Jeter's defense was pretty bad at short and yet he was passable enough there that his bat got him into the Hall.

If Gunnar's offense is significantly better and his defense is marginally worse he's the better choice.

 

Edit- ohh the other part.  Yea sorry that's how I frame questions. 

So, it's OK to put an inferior defender at the position that has the "greater defensive value?" Why not play him at third if he's better at third than Mateo/Ortiz and Mateo/Ortiz are better at short than him?

[Can_of_corn]

On 12/24/2022 at 7:41 PM, orioles22 said:

So, it's OK to put an inferior defender at the position that has the "greater defensive value?" Why not play him at third if he's better at third than Mateo/Ortiz and Mateo/Ortiz are better at short than him?

Because you are trying to maximize total value not defensive value.

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because you are trying to maximize total value not defensive value.

Trying to maximize Henderon's value and the team's overall value are two different things.    Henderson may have most of his value at SS but the combination of Ortiz or Mateo at SS and Henderson at 3B might be better for the team than Henderson at SS and another player at 3B.   Just saying.

[Frobby]

58 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Trying to maximize Henderon's value and the team's overall value are two different things.    Henderson may have most of his value at SS but the combination of Ortiz or Mateo at SS and Henderson at 3B might be better for the team than Henderson at SS and another player at 3B.   Just saying.

I don’t think anyone disagrees here.   I think the main point is we are trying to maximize the overall value (offensive and defense) of 2B/3B/SS.   We are not seeking to maximize the defense at SS unless it aligns with the overall objective.  

[RZNJ]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think anyone disagrees here.   I think the main point is we are trying to maximize the overall value (offensive and defense) of 2B/3B/SS.   We are not seeking to maximize the defense at SS unless it aligns with the overall objective.  

Corn said, "Put Gunnar where he is most valuable and then make other decision as those decisions need to be made."

BTW, I don't think you can really go wrong.  There are lot's a good combinations.   I would argue that Gunnar is probably going to be the best defensive 3B of anyone we have, including the GG incumbent.    I am not sure Gunnar is the best defensive SS.  Mateo and Ortiz might be better.

 

[orioles22]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Corn said, "Put Gunnar where he is most valuable and then make other decision as those decisions need to be made."

BTW, I don't think you can really go wrong.  There are lot's a good combinations.   I would argue that Gunnar is probably going to be the best defensive 3B of anyone we have, including the GG incumbent.    I am not sure Gunnar is the best defensive SS.  Mateo and Ortiz might be better.

 

That's what I was trying to get across. I think we should find the best overall combination for the team.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 12/23/2022 at 1:45 PM, owknows said:

I've even heard people suggest Mateo as a conversion.

But I'm generally of the opinion that a .325+ OBP average defense in CF will probably win you more games than a .265 OBP awesome defense.

I'm thinking that applies to SS too.  I think Mateo has until the All Star break to improve his hitting or be moved or replaced.  If Ortiz can put up a .750ish OPS w/ very solid defense at SS, I'll take that over how Mateo's been hitting.

[sportsfan8703]

Is the Adam Hall dream over?  I like Vavra out there at least with a chance to develop.