Stowers 2023

[Gurgi]

1 hour ago, Jagwar said:

Stowers is 2 for 30 with 12 K's. In his last 6 games with plate appearances he is 0 for 20 with 8 K's.

SSS or not that is just awful. Time for something else, hopefully sending him to Norfolk and giving Cowser a shot. 

Being Stowers is not a prospect there is little reason to suffer with zero production.  Might as well see what Cowser can do.  

[Big Mac]

7 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Being Stowers is not a prospect there is little reason to suffer with zero production.  Might as well see what Cowser can do.  

Other than in a technical sense of he's lost prospect eligibility, in what world is Stowers not a prospect?

[Gurgi]

Just now, Big Mac said:

Other than in a technical sense of he's lost prospect eligibility, in what world is Stowers not a prospect?

He was never a top 100 prospect.  The industry does not think much of him.  Sure he might turn out to be awesome......but if he is going to make it he will do fine if we send him back down.  

Lets see someone that likely is in the Orioles long term plans.  Bring up Cowser. 

[Big Mac]

2 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

He was never a top 100 prospect.  The industry does not think much of him.  Sure he might turn out to be awesome......but if he is going to make it he will do fine if we send him back down.  

Lets see someone that likely is in the Orioles long term plans.  Bring up Cowser. 

I absolutely disagree with the notion that the industry does not think much of him.  He looks awful right now but let's not discount the caliber of prospect Stowers was.

I think we are getting a lot of recency bias here and I personally don't believe the gap in talent level between Stowers and Cowser is that significant.  But people will see 30 sporadic plate appearances and jump to conclusions, it happens. 

[Jagwar]

1 hour ago, Big Mac said:

I absolutely disagree with the notion that the industry does not think much of him.  He looks awful right now but let's not discount the caliber of prospect Stowers was.

I think we are getting a lot of recency bias here and I personally don't believe the gap in talent level between Stowers and Cowser is that significant.  But people will see 30 sporadic plate appearances and jump to conclusions, it happens. 

In those 30 ABs he has struck out 12 times. Hasn't really made any hard contact that I can recall. He's currently a non-factor in a batting order for a team with playoff aspirations. 

I'm not suggesting the O's give up on him completely. But they should absolutely make a change here. 

[btdart20]

14 hours ago, Big Mac said:

I absolutely disagree with the notion that the industry does not think much of him.  He looks awful right now but let's not discount the caliber of prospect Stowers was.

I think we are getting a lot of recency bias here and I personally don't believe the gap in talent level between Stowers and Cowser is that significant.  But people will see 30 sporadic plate appearances and jump to conclusions, it happens. 

I agree with the recency bias and not drawing SSS based conclusions.  There's still much TBD about Stowers ability to play at the ML level. 

However, (IMO) there is a significant gap in talent between Cowser and Stowers.  I think Cowser will a #1-#3 type hitter with fringy CF defense on a playoff team.  Stowers' ceiling is a #5-6 hitter with fringy RF defense on a playoff team.  Cowser's floor (assuming he transitions to the big leagues) is a #5-6 hitter.  So Cowser's floor is Stower's ceiling.

[Sports Guy]

14 hours ago, Gurgi said:

He was never a top 100 prospect.  The industry does not think much of him.  Sure he might turn out to be awesome......but if he is going to make it he will do fine if we send him back down.  

Lets see someone that likely is in the Orioles long term plans.  Bring up Cowser. 

Not being a top 100 prospect means nothing.

He was a top 10 prospect in the best farm system in baseball. 
 

Saying he wasn’t a prospect is just foolish.

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Not being a top 100 prospect means nothing.

He was a top 10 prospect in the best farm system in baseball. 
 

Saying he wasn’t a prospect is just foolish.

It’s always tough to tell whose minor league success will translate to the majors, and whose won’t.   Stowers had a .938 OPS in AA and .880 in AAA.   Normally, I’d say a guy like that should be at least a .750 OPS guy in the majors.  And let’s not forget, he was at a respectable .724 last year, and improving towards the end.  

Part of me wants to say that Stowers is just pressing and will snap out of things and be that .750+ OPS guy that it seems he should be.  But when I watch him, I really notice that (1) he doesn’t seem balanced at the plate, he’s kind of lunging at the ball, and (2) he has real trouble with fastballs up and in.  In fact, I had noticed the latter when I saw him play at Bowie a couple of years ago.   So, I’m not sure this is just a case of a guy who’s pressing, it may be a case of a guy who feasts on bad pitchers who can’t hit their spots but can’t hit major league pitchers who know where to pitch him.
 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Frobby

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

It’s always tough to tell whose minor league success will translate to the majors, and whose won’t.   Stowers had a .938 OPS in AA and .880 in AAA.   Normally, I’d say a guy like that should be at least a .750 OPS guy in the majors.  And let’s not forget, he was at a respectable .724 last year, and improving towards the end.  

Part of me wants to say that Stowers is just pressing and will snap out of things and be that .750+ OPS guy that is seems he should be.  But when I watch him, I really notice that (1) he doesn’t seem balanced at the plate, he’s kind of lunging at the ball, and (2) he has real trouble with fastballs up and in.  In fact, I had noticed the latter when I saw him play at Bowie a couple of years ago.   So, I’m not sure this is just a case of a guy who’s pressing, it may be a case of a guy who feasts on bad pitchers who can’t hit their spots but can’t hit major league pitchers who know where to pitch him.
 

But none of this matters right now.

By that I mean, what you point out may be why he’s not a success long term. He may just be another player, in the long line of players, who just can’t handle the majors.

The problem is, we don’t know that and the team has done such an awful job of giving him a real chance that when he does get in there, he’s probably pressing and overthinking things.

People calling him to be DFA’d or say that we need to end this with him, etc..are being absurd.

He has zero to prove in the minors. He needs to be let go and just play him and see what he can do.  Guys with his amount of success and hard hit rates deserve a real chance.

I have never been completely sold on Stowers. I’m not in anyway saying he’s some great, infallible prospect but he absolutely deserves a real chance over an extended period of time. Yes, he has looked like dog poop lately but lots of guys look like dog poop in SSS.  

FFS, most of you were ready to say Mateo is an 800+ OPs guy because of one great month.  Some even in the 900s. The over the top judgements on small sample sizes is over the top on this site and people on here should be smarter than that.

I don’t think he carries a lot of trade value. He is the third or fourth piece in a bigger deal imo, so I don’t think playing him and watching him struggle really hurts things.

Most of all, the ML team is littered with guys who just aren’t everyday players. We need to stop treating many of these players as if they are legit, everyday players. 

Ryan Mountcastle, in 1512 career PA, has a 2.8fWAR. Santander, in over 1950 career PA, has a 4.5 fWAR and 2.5 of that came last year. 

Adam Frazier has a .3fWAR, has been largely awful offensively for almost 2 years and provides solid but nothing special defense.

Even Hays, who is off to a really nice start will come back to earth and show he should get more rest.(and he will probably get hurt)

Yet we are treating these guys like they DESERVE 500+ plate appearances.  And why?  Because the team is winning?  Really?  Is there no such thing as trying to get better even when you are winning?

 

 

 

[Otter]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But none of this matters right now.

By that I mean, what you point out may be why he’s not a success long term. He may just be another player, in the long line of players, who just can’t handle the majors.

The problem is, we don’t know that and the team has done such an awful job of giving him a real chance that when he does get in there, he’s probably pressing and overthinking things.

People calling him to be DFA’d or say that we need to end this with him, etc..are being absurd.

He has zero to prove in the minors. He needs to be let go and just play him and see what he can do.  Guys with his amount of success and hard hit rates deserve a real chance.

I have never been completely sold on Stowers. I’m not in anyway saying he’s some great, infallible prospect but he absolutely deserves a real chance over an extended period of time. Yes, he has looked like dog poop lately but lots of guys look like dog poop in SSS.  

FFS, most of you were ready to say Mateo is an 800+ OPs guy because of one great month.  Some even in the 900s. The over the top judgements on small sample sizes is over the top on this site and people on here should be smarter than that.

I don’t think he carries a lot of trade value. He is the third or fourth piece in a bigger deal imo, so I don’t think playing him and watching him struggle really hurts things.

Most of all, the ML team is littered with guys who just aren’t everyday players. We need to stop treating many of these players as if they are legit, everyday players. 

Ryan Mountcastle, in 1512 career PA, has a 2.8fWAR. Santander, in over 1950 career PA, has a 4.5 fWAR and 2.5 of that came last year. 

Adam Frazier has a .3fWAR, has been largely awful offensively for almost 2 years and provides solid but nothing special defense.

Even Hays, who is off to a really nice start will come back to earth and show he should get more rest.(and he will probably get hurt)

Yet we are treating these guys like they DESERVE 500+ plate appearances.  And why?  Because the team is winning?  Really?  Is there no such thing as trying to get better even when you are winning?

 

 

 

Agreed.  The overreaction on 30 bad ABs is extreme.  Yes, he has looked absolutely helpless but it's still only 30 sporadic ABs.  I think Stowers has a lot of holes in his approach, but I'd still like to see him get a legit shot before we give up on him.  The EV and power gives him a high upside, but he also has a low floor too.

[Hank Scorpio]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s always tough to tell whose minor league success will translate to the majors, and whose won’t.   Stowers had a .938 OPS in AA and .880 in AAA.   Normally, I’d say a guy like that should be at least a .750 OPS guy in the majors.  And let’s not forget, he was at a respectable .724 last year, and improving towards the end.  

Part of me wants to say that Stowers is just pressing and will snap out of things and be that .750+ OPS guy that it seems he should be.  But when I watch him, I really notice that (1) he doesn’t seem balanced at the plate, he’s kind of lunging at the ball, and (2) he has real trouble with fastballs up and in.  In fact, I had noticed the latter when I saw him play at Bowie a couple of years ago.   So, I’m not sure this is just a case of a guy who’s pressing, it may be a case of a guy who feasts on bad pitchers who can’t hit their spots but can’t hit major league pitchers who know where to pitch him.
 

I think Stowers has always had an unorthodox swing. Watch the home run he hit off Liam Hendriks last summer:

 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But none of this matters right now.

By that I mean, what you point out may be why he’s not a success long term. He may just be another player, in the long line of players, who just can’t handle the majors.

The problem is, we don’t know that and the team has done such an awful job of giving him a real chance that when he does get in there, he’s probably pressing and overthinking things.

People calling him to be DFA’d or say that we need to end this with him, etc..are being absurd.

He has zero to prove in the minors. He needs to be let go and just play him and see what he can do.  Guys with his amount of success and hard hit rates deserve a real chance.

I have never been completely sold on Stowers. I’m not in anyway saying he’s some great, infallible prospect but he absolutely deserves a real chance over an extended period of time. Yes, he has looked like dog poop lately but lots of guys look like dog poop in SSS.  

FFS, most of you were ready to say Mateo is an 800+ OPs guy because of one great month.  Some even in the 900s. The over the top judgements on small sample sizes is over the top on this site and people on here should be smarter than that.

I don’t think he carries a lot of trade value. He is the third or fourth piece in a bigger deal imo, so I don’t think playing him and watching him struggle really hurts things.

Most of all, the ML team is littered with guys who just aren’t everyday players. We need to stop treating many of these players as if they are legit, everyday players. 

Ryan Mountcastle, in 1512 career PA, has a 2.8fWAR. Santander, in over 1950 career PA, has a 4.5 fWAR and 2.5 of that came last year. 

Adam Frazier has a .3fWAR, has been largely awful offensively for almost 2 years and provides solid but nothing special defense.

Even Hays, who is off to a really nice start will come back to earth and show he should get more rest.(and he will probably get hurt)

Yet we are treating these guys like they DESERVE 500+ plate appearances.  And why?  Because the team is winning?  Really?  Is there no such thing as trying to get better even when you are winning?

You are kind of jumping around all over the place here, so let’s just keep this on Stowers.  

I disagree that he hasn’t been getting a fair shot lately.  That may have been true before he was sent down to AAA, but since he returned he’s started in 8 of the 13 games the team has played and played in 11 of them.  That’s a very reasonable amount of playing time.  

You talk about “trying to get better while you are winning,” but it’s hard to make the case that giving Stowers even more playing time than he’s gotten the last two weeks helps us to win.  Hays, Santander and Mountcastle all have flaws, but I’d rather see any of them at the plate than Stowers right now.   

As to the SSS argument, well, it is a very small sample.   But it’s not just the poor results, it’s that his at bats have been very poor quality for the most part.  So, there’s the question of how much rope you give him.  This isn’t a case of guy who’s hitting the ball well but getting unlucky, or a guy who looks like he could break out at any moment.  He looks pretty lost and vulnerable up there. 


 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You are kind of jumping around all over the place here, so let’s just keep this on Stowers.  

I disagree that he hasn’t been getting a fair shot lately.  That may have been true before he was sent down to AAA, but since he returned he’s started in 8 of the 13 games the team has played and played in 11 of them.  That’s a very reasonable amount of playing time.  

You talk about “trying to get better while you are winning,” but it’s hard to make the case that giving Stowers even more playing time than he’s gotten the last two weeks helps us to win.  Hays, Santander and Mountcastle all have flaws, but I’d rather see any of them at the plate than Stowers right now.   

As to the SSS argument, well, it is a very small sample.   But it’s not just the poor results, it’s that his at bats have been very poor quality for the most part.  So, there’s the question of how much rope you give him.  This isn’t a case of guy who’s hitting the ball well but getting unlucky, or a guy who looks like he could break out at any moment.  He looks pretty lost and vulnerable up there. 


 

Frobby, you just mentioned a 13 game stretch. I’m talking about his entire young career and how he has been handled. Again, stop grasping onto SSS.

And Mateo looks lost too and has largely looked that way for his ML career. Are you cool with benching him?  We have someone up right now that can give us the same elite level defense, so that’s ok, right?  You know, since Mateo looks so helpless up there in a SSS of games?

Edited May 15, 2023 by Sports Guy

[btdart20]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The problem is, we don’t know that and the team has done such an awful job of giving him a real chance that when he does get in there, he’s probably pressing and overthinking things.

People calling him to be DFA’d or say that we need to end this with him, etc..are being absurd.

He has zero to prove in the minors. He needs to be let go and just play him and see what he can do.  Guys with his amount of success and hard hit rates deserve a real chance.

I don't disagree with any of this necessarily.  But you're not accounting for lift off.  By which, I hope decisions will look different this year.

Giving a prospect a long leash in 2021 and the first half of 2022 would be a no-brainer.  In the year of lift off, we have to be a bit more discerning/nuanced.

Elias/Hyde has been balancing putting the team in the best place to win regularly AND give prospects (like Gunnar, Stowers, and Vavra) and some bounce back candidates (like O'Hearn, Mateo, maybe even Hays) a chance to prove themselves.  

Stowers is in a tough spot for sure.  But time is his enemy.  The team can't afford to give him unlimited time before they toss the next man up to the wolves.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I don't disagree with any of this necessarily.  But you're not accounting for lift off.  By which, I hope decisions will look different this year.

Giving a prospect a long leash in 2021 and the first half of 2022 would be a no-brainer.  In the year of lift off, we have to be a bit more discerning/nuanced.

Elias/Hyde has been balancing putting the team in the best place to win regularly AND give prospects (like Gunnar, Stowers, and Vavra) and some bounce back candidates (like O'Hearn, Mateo, maybe even Hays) a chance to prove themselves.  

Stowers is in a tough spot for sure.  But time is his enemy.  The team can't afford to give him unlimited time before they toss the next man up to the wolves.

The team can’t afford to treat the vets like everyday players either.