Cease vs everyone else

[owknows]

5 hours ago, brooooksy said:

It took Elias until his 5th full season to make the playoffs. That’s not early. The team completed punted on 2019-2022 and it cost them at least one playoff spot in 2022 if not another in 2020 by deliberately fielding minor league talent for 4 years. Then they performed 7 games over their Pythagorean on the back of Felix Bautista and got completely wiped out in the postseason because they failed to add any starting pitching. And at the deadline in 2022, the 2022 offseason, the 2023 deadline, and today, Elias keeps repeating how they tried to get pitching…but it just didn’t come together. Well, if you aren’t willing to trade prospects or spend money to get it, how hard are you trying?

I’m guessing you’d be very happy to hear Elias parrot the Mariners gm’s goal of winning .540 of games. But to me that’s not good enough given the tanking. No time has successfully competed without spending money. Even the rays rebuilt for for years prior to this run. 

It's like you're totally unaware that the Orioles intentionally employed a strategy that sold off talent, tanked, and started from the ground up by building the best farm in baseball... which began only last year to attempt to field a legitimately contending team....  and was quite successful... quite early... in that attempt.

 

 

[owknows]

6 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

You are correct that the O's have come farther faster than we thought they could.  

But they don't have enough front-line pitching to win a championship, and they are not going to get the pitching they need from their farm system, which is built to produce position players. 

The O's need to obtain front-line pitching from outside the organization.  Unfortunately, trading for established starting pitchers is extremely difficult.   The expanded playoffs mean that most teams go into the season thinking they have a shot.  The few teams that are willing to trade established pitchers mostly want pitching prospects back.  Or they want a ridiculous Bedard-like return.  

So that leaves free agency as the most plausible path--maybe the ONLY path--to upgrading their rotation.  Free agents are risky, especially if you target bottom of the barrel pitchers that nobody else wants like Ubaldo Jiminez and Alex Cobb.  If you want front-line pitching, you have to be willing to sign top talent for multiple years and real money.  

Having a team policy that you will never sign an upper tier free agent for multiple years or a high salary--and this IS the Orioles' current policy until proven otherwise--is just cutting yourself off from one of the pools of talent that you can use to build a team, just like the old Oriole policy of not signing international amateur free agents.   Which was also a cheap-ass policy that crippled the Orioles competitively for years.   

So I am not willing to give John Angelos a pass here.  He needs to sign someone at the level of Blake Snell or Jordan Montgomery, and if he won't or can't, he needs to sell the team to a new owner who can and will.  

The very first year of attempting to compete after coming out of a long rebuild in which they created the best farm system in baseball... the Orioles won 101 games...  And they did so with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.

The young pitching staff has a year more experience, as do the position players... and the team is slowly transitioning from some stopgap vet talent, to even better home grown options.

They managed to squeeze 15 wins out of Gibson last year when most thought he was used up...

They need to replace those wins.

I think they have at least as good a shot at replacing those wins with some combination of Irvin, Wells, and Hall as they do by overpaying for Snell, Montgomery or Cease.

I'd like to see the team put their trade resources into acquiring a half-dozen strong mid-high minors pitchers than buying or trading for overpriced MLB arms... The objective should be sustainability so that they can keep the conveyor belt full and compete for the long haul.

I'm generally pleased with the progress the front office has made. And as much as I'm sure they are all deeply concerned about what you are and are not willing to "give them a pass on"... I think they will somehow manage to carry on, and do what they think best for the club in spite of your righteous indignation.

They may choose to spend money on a starter if they think it's a good fit. Or they may choose to trade for one. But whatever they do, I am coming to believe that it will be done based on careful consideration and a genuine strategic interest in the health and performance of the team. Your outrage notwithstanding.

[RZNJ]

Top Ten Reasons Why The Answers To All Of Your Questions Are In The Other Dylan Cease Thread

 

[sportsfan8703]

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

No one is “wasting away in the minors”.  It’s just a bogus argument at this point.

AAA games

Westburg 158

Norby 147

Ortiz 114

Cowser 114

Kjerstad 76

Mayo 62

 

 

It’s funny that the prospect with the most AAA games had the best results in the MLB. Almost like that matters sometimes. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, owknows said:

It's like you're totally unaware that the Orioles intentionally employed a strategy that sold off talent, tanked, and started from the ground up by building the best farm in baseball... which began only last year to attempt to field a legitimately contending team....  and was quite successful... quite early... in that attempt.

 

 

Five years to make the playoffs isn't early by most standards.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It’s funny that the prospect with the most AAA games had the best results in the MLB. Almost like that matters sometimes. 

Or like Machado and.Markakis it isn't needed at all.

 

[Too Tall]

I just wish this site would Cease being obsessed with Cease. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

I just wish this site would Cease being obsessed with Cease. 

I just want the low effort puns to stop.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I just want the low effort puns to cease.

I see what you did there.  Lol

[Moose Milligan]

@larryttI appreciate you thinking that this is a different thread than the other Cease threads but I don't think you're starting the conversation you want to have here.  This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in the other Cease threads.

Practically the only thing that hasn't been discussed about Cease are his favorite foods and which way he leans when farting in the dugout.  

[dystopia]

I’m calling for a complete and total shutdown of all Dylan Cease threads until we can figure out what the hell is going on

[owknows]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Five years to make the playoffs isn't early by most standards.

Did you expect them to win 101 games last year?

Or did their success come earlier than you expected?

[Just Regular]

"And so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."

[Too Tall]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I just want the low effort puns to stop.

For the record, everything at my age requires effort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frobby]

38 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Top Ten Reasons Why The Answers To All Of Your Questions Are In The Other Dylan Cease Thread

 

Seriously, I was at least expecting to see some anagrams in the OP!  Wells would make a “swell” fifth starter!