Santander for Bieber

[Sports Guy]

This was a trade proposed by a fan and sent to Bowden and he commented on it.

Just a simple question and just looking at this trade in a vacuum…would you make that move?

[dystopia]

Yes. 

[interloper]

I voted no but it's close. I just think it's tough removing an experienced 30 home run bat from the lineup. It's a significantly worse lineup without Santander, and it puts a lot of pressure on rookies Kjerstad and/or Cowser to perform as a replacement right now for a WS-hunting team. Santander is also a highly underrated clubhouse guy and presence, IMO. 

Not to mention Bieber missed time with elbow inflammation last year, hence only ~120 IP. That adds some additional risk. 

I think we can supplement the rotation similarly without giving up an integral part of the ML lineup. We should be focusing on trading from the prospect pool. Or, you know, just signing E-Rod. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

Interesting that Bieber doesn’t have great statcast numbers but he hasn’t had good statcast numbers any year.

Looking at this trade in a vacuum, I think you have to say yes. You get an upgrade at starter and you open up a spot in the lineup that is needed.

I can see saying no if you look at this outside a vacuum but one of my goals this offseason would be to trade at least one of Santander or Mountcastle. 

[sportsfan8703]

Nope.  The tweet for this is hilarious.  Gorman has a bunch of control left, and Santa has only one year.  So I don't see how those are even comparable players for the Guardians to get back.  If we're looking to trade for a one year SP then I'd rather us target Jose Quintana.  Quintana would only cost prospects and not our MOO SH bat.  

[jabba72]

Yes, I would. Because Bieber's easily a #3 if not higher in the O's rotation and would solidify our SP depth. Santander, IMO is replaceable.

Hopefully this offer is out there.

[Moose Milligan]

I would be apathetically ambivalent on this deal.

I like Santander, but I don't recognize him as a core piece of this team in 3-4 years from now.  Bieber's K rate has dwindled, his WHIP has crept up.  The one thing I like about him though is that his ERA is always close to his FIP.  And he was at 3.80 last year, we could have used that.

It would also depend if Bieber was our only rotation add for the offseason, too.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Interesting that Bieber doesn’t have great statcast numbers but he hasn’t had good statcast numbers any year.

Looking at this trade in a vacuum, I think you have to say yes. You get an upgrade at starter and you open up a spot in the lineup that is needed.

I can see saying no if you look at this outside a vacuum but one of my goals this offseason would be to trade at least one of Santander or Mountcastle. 

Very different players and impacts to the lineup. Mountcastle IMO is a lot more replaceable than Santander. Mounty should only play vs LHP while Santander is pretty good on both sides of the plate and should play as much as possible, even with Kjerstad on the 26-man. 

[Frobby]

I’d want to do as much due diligence as possible about Bieber’s health, but if I got comfortable on that front, then this is a trade we should make.  Santander’s replacements are ready and despite Bieber’s declining K rate etc. he’s been a consistently above average starter.   

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Very different players and impacts to the lineup. Mountcastle IMO is a lot more replaceable than Santander. Mounty should only play vs LHP while Santander is pretty good on both sides of the plate and should play as much as possible, even with Kjerstad on the 26-man. 

The roster spot that trading either opens up is similar and that’s what is important.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The roster spot that trading either opens up is similar and that’s what is important.

Sure. Like I said I think it's close. I just view Santander as a true MOO bat, of which there is only one other one on the roster in Henderson. He strikes me as a guy we'd want in a playoff run, and as much as I love Kjerstad (and I love Kjerstad), I don't think he's a 1-for-1 replacement for Santander at this stage. 

More than anything, I just think we can address the pitching elsewhere. Bieber is a health risk, too. Would I hate the trade, no, but it's not automatic for me. 

[TommyPickles]

Man. Tough call, because I'm someone who believes the Os should keep Santander for 2024. I'd even be down with him playing a lot more first base. The playoffs showed us the importance of veteran sluggers...

That said, I think I'd bite my lip and say yes.

Bradish, Grayson, Means, Bieber, Kremer is a legit rotation.

[royalstillman]

Just as we are heavy with left handed hitters because of the short porch in right, we should be targeting a decent southpaw starter to take advantage of the wall in left. For me,E-Rod is the guy we should go after. That still leaves us with all of our trade options for other needs.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, TommyPickles said:

The playoffs showed us the importance of veteran sluggers...

 

This. I completely agree that guys like Santander just thrive in the playoffs. We need experience in the lineup - and not just scrap heap veteran experience - guys who actually perform at a high level. 

[sportsfan8703]

I think we're better off with...

Bradish, Grayson, Means, Kremer, Gibson/Wells/Hall/Irvin + Santander 

than....

Bradish, Grayson, Means, Bieber, Kremer w/o Santander