Realistic Free Agent #3 Pitchers

[TommyPickles]

Ryu and Paxton seem similar. Old lefty’s with decent track records and health concerns.

I just think Ryu will be a bit better. In both his career and last year, Ryu has allowed fewer BB/9 and fewer HR/9. 

He’s projected to have a lower ERA than Paxton in 2024. He’s been worth more WAR in his career and over the last five years. 

He’s been a similar (and slightly better) pitcher to John Means throughout his career, in terms of how many strikeouts and walks he records.

But he is older than Paxton…

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Ryu and Paxton seem similar. Old lefty’s with decent track records and health concerns.

I just think Ryu will be a bit better. In both his career and last year, Ryu has allowed fewer BB/9 and fewer HR/9. 

He’s projected to have a lower ERA than Paxton in 2024. He’s been worth more WAR in his career and over the last five years. 

He’s been a similar (and slightly better) pitcher to John Means throughout his career, in terms of how many strikeouts and walks he records.

But he is older than Paxton…

So does their innings pitched over the last couple years. Paxton just under 120 innings over the last three seasons, Just under 100 in 2023. Ryu has 79 innings over his last 2 years, he did pitch 169 3 years ago. He hasn’t averaged 5 innings per start over the last 2 seasons. 
 

it’s shocking that anyone here would get excited about either of these guys! Talk about dumping the limited available resources on crap.

[Frobby]

36 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So does their innings pitched over the last couple years. Paxton just under 120 innings over the last three seasons, Just under 100 in 2023. Ryu has 79 innings over his last 2 years, he did pitch 169 3 years ago. He hasn’t averaged 5 innings per start over the last 2 seasons. 
 

it’s shocking that anyone here would get excited about either of these guys! Talk about dumping the limited available resources on crap.

It bothers me to call two pitchers with a career ERA+ of 122 (Ryu) and 112 (Paxton) “crap.”   If you think they’re past the productive part of their careers, fine, but no reason to disparage them.   

Both had TJ surgery in recent years, which mostly explains their innings totals.  Is John Means “crap?”  He has the same career ERA+ as Ryu, and threw fewer innings in each of 2021, 2022 and 2023.  In fact, in every single year of Means’ career, he’s thrown fewer innings than Ryu threw that same season.   
 

[Roll Tide]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It bothers me to call two pitchers with a career ERA+ of 122 (Ryu) and 112 (Paxton) “crap.”   If you think they’re past the productive part of their careers, fine, but no reason to disparage them.   

Both had TJ surgery in recent years, which mostly explains their innings totals.  Is John Means “crap?”  He has the same career ERA+ as Ryu, and threw fewer innings in each of 2021, 2022 and 2023.  In fact, in every single year of Means’ career, he’s thrown fewer innings than Ryu threw that same season.   
 

I’m disappointed that these types are the names being associated with an organization that wants to challenge for a World Series. It’s similar to the money they wasted on Givens last year. Either of these guys can be counted on to give you more than 100 innings based on their last 2 seasons. We already have Means that we have to count on to be healthy that’s extremely risky. Then we add a guy like this for 10 to 15 million. Not to mention we gave $11 million to an old declining closer. 
 

This doesn’t sound like a team that wants to contend for a World Series. I’m not blaming Elias as I think we all know the root of the problem.

Edited January 14 by Roll Tide

[Frobby]

31 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m disappointed that these types are the names being associated with an organization that wants to challenge for a World Series. It’s similar to the money they wasted on Givens last year. Either of these guys can be counted on to give you more than 100 innings based on their last 2 seasons. We already have Means that we have to count on to be healthy that’s extremely risky. Then we add a guy like this for 10 to 15 million. Not to mention we gave $11 million to an old declining closer. 
 

This doesn’t sound like a team that wants to contend for a World Series. I’m not blaming Elias as I think we all know the root of the problem.

I’m just objecting to the word “crap.”  I understand your logic.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m disappointed that these types are the names being associated with an organization that wants to challenge for a World Series. It’s similar to the money they wasted on Givens last year. Either of these guys can be counted on to give you more than 100 innings based on their last 2 seasons. We already have Means that we have to count on to be healthy that’s extremely risky. Then we add a guy like this for 10 to 15 million. Not to mention we gave $11 million to an old declining closer. 
 

This doesn’t sound like a team that wants to contend for a World Series. I’m not blaming Elias as I think we all know the root of the problem.

When you add up all the contract amounts handed out on lower tier players, it starts to look like an amount that would actually get us an impact player. Kind of reminds me of when we had to go get Ubaldo, Gallardo, and Miley for $28 million instead of just paying $30 million for a guy who would get the job done.

[emmett16]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m disappointed that these types are the names being associated with an organization that wants to challenge for a World Series. It’s similar to the money they wasted on Givens last year. Either of these guys can be counted on to give you more than 100 innings based on their last 2 seasons. We already have Means that we have to count on to be healthy that’s extremely risky. Then we add a guy like this for 10 to 15 million. Not to mention we gave $11 million to an old declining closer. 
 

This doesn’t sound like a team that wants to contend for a World Series. I’m not blaming Elias as I think we all know the root of the problem.

 

33 minutes ago, brooooksy said:

When you add up all the contract amounts handed out on lower tier players, it starts to look like an amount that would actually get us an impact player. Kind of reminds me of when we had to go get Ubaldo, Gallardo, and Miley for $28 million instead of just paying $30 million for a guy who would get the job done.

Who would you sign to make the team better that would give us a chance to win a WS? 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’m just objecting to the word “crap.”  I understand your logic.  

Ok sorry ….not an upgrade over Gibson. In fact a significant downgrade if you add in their recent injury history 

[Roll Tide]

39 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

 

Who would you sign to make the team better that would give us a chance to win a WS? 

I would have not screwed around and signed Sonny Gray, even if it meant wasting $11 million on Kimbrel. Wells and Hall stay in the pen. Trade a prospect or 2 for a cheap but reliable reliever.

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

I would have not screwed around and signed Sonny Gray, even if it meant wasting $11 million on Kimbrel. Wells and Hall stay in the pen. Trade a prospect or 2 for a cheap but reliable reliever.

He wasn’t ever an option for the Os.  He was always going to St. Louis.  

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

He wasn’t ever an option for the Os.  He was always going to St. Louis.  

You don’t know if you don’t try. IMO the Orioles would be an intriguing option compared to going to a team that just finished 20 games under 500

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Ok sorry ….not an upgrade over Gibson. In fact a significant downgrade if you add in their recent injury history 

I would say both  have more upside than Gibson, but also more risk, especially Paxton.  

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

You don’t know if you don’t try. IMO the Orioles would be an intriguing option compared to going to a team that just finished 20 games under 500

His wife is from St. Louis and said he always dreamed of playing for the Cardinals(the team he grew up following).  He took less money/years to go there & was just about the first signing of the off-season.   Management knows these details, he was never a realistic target. 

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I would say both  have more upside than Gibson, but also more risk, especially Paxton.  

Ryu has pitched more than 67 innings 1 time in 4 years. So he’s just as unreliable. RYU hasn’t had a FIP under 4 since 2020. 

Paxton’s innings are worse …116 innings in 4 seasons. 

 

[Roll Tide]

44 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

His wife is from St. Louis and said he always dreamed of playing for the Cardinals(the team he grew up following).  He took less money/years to go there & was just about the first signing of the off-season.   Management knows these details, he was never a realistic target. 

We will never know….you can’t turn down an opportunity that you didn’t know about. He as never a realistic target due to our ownership conundrum. It’s fine to say all the right things after you sign. Same BS that was said when Texeira signed with the Yankees. My uncle knew his father well. 
 

I would much rather go after Burnes aggressively and sign him to an extension. But, again not happening because of our ownership stuff.

 

Edited January 14 by Roll Tide