Fangraphs’ Ben Clemens: “C’mon Orioles, Do Something!”

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

The question I have is are they accurately valuing those pieces?

 

I don't know. I mean I thought we gave up a lot in the Flaherty deal, so it did feel like they bent a little bit to get that one done, even if the deal was kinda spare parts-y. Prieto can play and Showalter is interesting. Rom showed he can be a Zimmermann type. Those are useful pieces. 

Anyway, if we overvalue slightly it's because these prospects are our only shot at continually being good. We're not spending, and we're not extending. So if teams want our guys, they have to offer good value in return.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't know. I mean I thought we gave up a lot in the Flaherty deal, so it did feel like they bent a little bit to get that one done, even if the deal was kinda spare parts-y. Prieto can play and Showalter is interesting. Rom showed he can be a Zimmermann type. Those are useful pieces. 

Anyway, if we overvalue slightly it's because these prospects are our only shot at continually being good. We're not spending, and we're not extending. So if teams want our guys, they have to offer good value in return.

It's not the only shot, it's the only shot our combination of Owner and GM are willing to attempt.

[btdart20]

“What is a slow day in baseball media?”  

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Is his next blog post going to be directed at the White Sox front office. It takes two to tango...

I'm sorry was the title of the piece "Why haven't the O's traded for Cease yet?".

Other options have been available and they are pretty much taken none of them.

I don't think any of us thought that Elias was going into the offseason with a to do list of :

1. Sign one year closer
2. Trade for Cease
3. Profit

[forphase1]

While I get the frustration the offseason is far from over.   Still plenty of time to make moves if Elias decides to do so.   But in general I HATE the 'must do something' argument.  Be it in baseball,  politics or life in general,  the idea that something must be done often leads to bad decisions and bad policies.  Instead of thinking through things and taking the time to evaluate and think of the long term consequences of actions and decisions, knee jerk reactions often lead to poor outcomes.

All that said,  I'm glad Elias isn't rushing into something or making dumb deals or trades just to satisfy the fan base or bloggers who are impatient.  If the deal doesn't make sense for the Os or the direction Elias envisions, then he shouldn't do it.   I want moves made,  but only if they are the right moves.   Elias isn't perfect, but at this point he has earned the right for me to defer to his judgment for the most part.   Either the FA deals or trade offers just hasn't made sense for the Os at this point.   

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

While I get the frustration the offseason is far from over.   Still plenty of time to make moves if Elias decides to do so.   But in general I HATE the 'must do something' argument.  Be it in baseball,  politics or life in general,  the idea that something must be done often leads to bad decisions and bad policies.  Instead of thinking through things and taking the time to evaluate and think of the long term consequences of actions and decisions, knee jerk reactions often lead to poor outcomes.

All that said,  I'm glad Elias isn't rushing into something or making dumb deals or trades just to satisfy the fan base or bloggers who are impatient.  If the deal doesn't make sense for the Os or the direction Elias envisions, then he shouldn't do it.   I want moves made,  but only if they are the right moves.   Elias isn't perfect, but at this point he has earned the right for me to defer to his judgment for the most part.   Either the FA deals or trade offers just hasn't made sense for the Os at this point.   

They tried not doing anything in 2014.

I've of the mind you should always be trying to improve.

[forphase1]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They tried not doing anything in 2014.

I've of the mind you should always be trying to improve.

Sure,  I don't disagree.  We should always be trying to improve.   But only if the deals make sense.   There are many things I'd love to see us do to improve, some of which we can simply do (replacing Mateo on the roster for example), others of which we have completion or need others to agree (trades, FA signings).  I completely agree with the premise of trying to get better and not just resting on past laurels.  But the deals have to make sense. 

[SteveA]

I'm sort of 50/50 on this.   Yes, I am frustrated that the Orioles haven't "done anything" given that we have a need (starting pitching) and some capital to get it (more hitting prospects than we can fit on the team in the coming years, or payroll space if our owner permits our GM to use it).

BUT... it has been a remarkably slow offseason all around MLB.   The #1 non-import starting pitcher free agent (Snell) has not yet signed.  Some of the next tier have signed (EdRod) but not others (Montgomery).   The biggest name starting pitcher expected to be traded (Cease) has not yet been dealt.   Many of the other starting pitchers that have been rumored to maybe be available for trade (Miami guys, Burnes) have not yet been dealt either.

So I temper my impatience a bit with the knowledge that while we haven't done a lot, neither has most of MLB.   There is still a lot of major business that will get conducted before the season, and we COULD be a part of it.

But then the devil's advocate is that Elias hasn't shown any proclivity since he has been in charge here to pick up guaranteed impact players.   He has done a fantastic job at picking up fringe guys and making something out of them.  He's done a great job drafting and developing.   But until he actually goes out and gets a top notch player who doesn't need to be turned into something, that already IS something -- there will always be that question about whether he can do it or not.

So the clock is ticking, we are all getting antsy, but it's not quite time to hit the panic button yet.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Sure,  I don't disagree.  We should always be trying to improve.   But only if the deals make sense.   There are many things I'd love to see us do to improve, some of which we can simply do (replacing Mateo on the roster for example), others of which we have completion or need others to agree (trades, FA signings).  I completely agree with the premise of trying to get better and not just resting on past laurels.  But the deals have to make sense. 

And it's possible that we are the side that is being unreasonable.

Last trade deadline did not fill me with confidence.

 

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s 100% right.

Clemens?  Of course he isn’t right.  It’s still January. If it was first day of the spring season it would be different. But it’s not and judging today would be foolish. You know that. 
 

You want him to pick up the phone and give Holliday to the Whitesox?  I don’t think so. 
 

 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 

Letting people go isn’t exactly an affirmative act.  He’s added Kimbrel and made a couple of other minor moves like Hilliard.   So he hasn’t done much, and even Elias said at the beginning of the offseason that he wanted to add a starting pitcher, hopefully one that could slot in our top 3.  

The winter isn’t over yet, but if Elias did nothing more I’d be very disappointed   That disappointment may or may not correlate to how the team does in 2024, so I won’t freak out about it.   Elias has earned the benefit of the doubt, and it’s not like we don’t have decent options for our rotation.  But I’d be happy if Elias accomplished his own stated goal for buttressing the rotation.  
 

Elias did the same thing last off season.  Remember Bassitt.  Then the O's win 101.

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Clemens?  Of course he isn’t right.  It’s still January. If it was first day of the spring season it would be different. But it’s not and judging today would be foolish. You know that. 
 

You want him to pick up the phone and give Holliday to the Whitesox?  I don’t think so. 
 

 

He’s not necessarily saying to do something today. It’s a general overall point that is 100% correct.  The Os need to add a real starter.

Edited January 18 by Sports Guy

[Moose Milligan]

It’s just painfully obvious that they’re again banking on young players to step up and produce. 

They’re banking on a good to great season from Adley. Hopefully producing WAR at a 2022 rate. 

They’re banking on Gunnar putting up as much WAR as last year, perhaps even more. 

They're banking on Holliday coming up and producing at some point.  

They’re banking on Bradish repeating.

They’re banking on G-Rod looking more like the guy in the second half of 2023 than he was in the first half.  

They’re banking on Means coming back and upgrading a rotation spot.

The only thing they HAD to do this offseason is find a closer to hold that down for a year while Bautista rehabs.

That’s it.  IMO, that’s their plan…continued progress from young players and getting veterans back from rehab.  

 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias did the same thing last off season.  Remember Bassitt.  Then the O's win 101.

I bet you made a similar post to this after 2012 and 2014.

[Ripken]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias did the same thing last off season.  Remember Bassitt.  Then the O's win 101.

Then they won 0.