On MLB just now the host were asking what should Baltimore give up to get Miller from the A's

[sportsfan8703]

29 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Overreact much?

I’m under reacting to the overreacting of selling the farm for Miller. 

[Bemorewins]

32 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yeah let’s trade away Mayo and EBJ for Mason Miller. Then at the deadline we can deal Basallo, Kjerstad, and Norby, for Adam Ottavino and JD Martinez. Then we’ll have a nice little 2 year run, then everyone can cry that Rubenstein is just like Angelos, meanwhile we suck. 

What??? Where’s all this coming from?

I didn’t see anybody advocating for this extreme approach. Nor do I see any way that our title contention would be limited to a “2 year run”. Gunnar is 22, Adley 25, Holliday 20, Grayson 24.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m under reacting to the overreacting of selling the farm for Miller. 

Mayo and/or Bradfield is “the farm”?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

And yet pitchers exist.

It's not "far" more.

You are just pissy that someone actually bothered to read your drivel and call you on it.

No one said pitchers didn't exist...?

He said "far more of a sure thing" which, if you're playing the semantics game...I mean, I dunno why to pick this battle instead of just letting it go...but "far more of a sure thing" means that they're a better bet to succeed.  That's it.

Is it factually true that drafted hitters succeed more than drafted pitchers?  I'm not sure, and it would depend on what the definition of success is.  I think it would be an interesting study and I think we'd all have to agree on the definition of what "success" would be in this case...just simply making an MLB roster?  

But it also wouldn't surprise me if hitters drafted would turn out to be more successful than pitchers, depending on the metrics chosen to measure, of course.

[ScGO's]

10 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

In his latest article, Rosenthal mentioned that baseball trade values says it would need to be Mayo and Bradfield for Miller 

I'd consider that, but I think it will take more

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The lack of understand on team building astounds me sometimes.

You don’t trade guys who are arguably top 5 hitting prospects for a reliever with a high risk of injury. It’s just non sensical.

You know why Elias always drafts hitters?  Because they are far more of a sure thing and we are seeing doctors and coaches, etc..talking about how these guys throwing this hard are going to break down because the arm just can’t take it.

I would love to add Miller but there is a stopping point on what you give up and Mayo and Basallo are that clear line of stopping.

You absolutely, 100% do not even consider making that move. 

Whenever you’re 100% sure of something (it seems like 100% of the time) I think there has to be another side to this.  
 

Last June would anyone here have traded Felix Bautista for Josh Jung?   Jung was rated #26 prospect by Baseball America, similar to Mayo, proving himself in the ML as a viable 3B and ROY candidate.   Maybe some of you would but I bet most wouldn’t.   Why not?   Because Felix is/was special.

Of course, Miller comes with risk but how high is the risk.  Tanaka had the slight tear, came back, and was never re-injured.  Is it just a matter of time before the tear in Bradish’s elbow tears again or is it healed?   Are Bradish and Miller ticking time bombs or are they the same risk as any other pitcher.  Before you say the answer is obvious, I bet it’s not.

Any pitcher we get could get injured and Michael Kopech, for one, isn’t Mason Miller.   Do you want the best with some risk or do you want a cheap knock off with less risk?

The same person arguing we can’t trade Mayo for Miller is the same one saying that Mayo 100% (it’s never 50%) will never play 3B for the Orioles.   As a 1B, which he’s not doing all that well so far, or a RF which, despite a great arm, don’t know if he’ll be better or worse than Kjerstad, or as a DH he simply loses value.   Not only that but we do have Kjerstad for RF and we do have Mountcastle/O’Hearn/Basallo at 1B.    So, how integral is Mayo to the future success of the Orioles.  Is he more integral than a lockdown closer with 6 years of service time, a 103 mph fastball, a knee buckling slider, and command of both pitches?

Miller comes with risk but the upside for the team is tremendous.   Mayo hasn’t proven a thing in the majors, we don’t know where he’s going to play, plus we have other just as talented prospects who play all the positions he might play.

You know what we don’t have?   A good feeling with a 2 run or 1 run lead after 8 innings.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Mayo and/or Bradfield is “the farm”?

Mayo for Miller kind of is. It’s an absurd thought.

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

What??? Where’s all this coming from?

I didn’t see anybody advocating for this extreme approach. Nor do I see any way that our title contention would be limited to a “2 year run”. Gunnar is 22, Adley 25, Holliday 20, Grayson 24.

It’s just a reality check for the fawning that’s going on over Mason Miller who nobody even knew who he was 6 weeks ago. Now everyone is ready to hand over Mayo+ or Basallo+ for this dude. 

Heck no, but that’s just my opinion. Hopefully Elias’ too. Everyone can have their own opinion so fawn away if you desire. 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m under reacting to the overreacting of selling the farm for Miller. 

The farm?  A top 25 prospect and someone who isn’t on many, if any, top 100 lists, for a young, elite, ML closer with 6 years of service time.  I can see the argument or trepidation but to act like it’s some crime is overreacting.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

The farm?  A top 25 prospect and someone who isn’t on many, if any, top 100 lists, for a young, elite, ML closer with 6 years of service time.  I can see the argument or trepidation but to act like it’s some crime is overreacting.

So six weeks makes you an elite closer?  How’s that UCL doing of his?  Has the league seen him 2-3 times yet?  What’s his big moment pedigree?  It’s easy pitching for a team with Oakland’s expectations versus us in the AL East. That team is homeless and expected to lose 100. You can’t get lower than that. I guess contraction level expectations. 

[Moose Milligan]

Anyway, in the Athletic yesterday, there was an article about the ROY front runners in the AL.  Mason Miller was #1, Cowser was #2.  The article made note of how guys like Holliday, Langford, Carter and others who were pre-season favorites have not lived up to the hype and/or have been injured. 

A few things here:

First, just because it was on the MLB Network doesn't mean it's real.  That's people getting paid to...well, just talk.  Do we even know that the Athletics would listen to trades for Mason Miller?

Second, the Athletics aren't that bad this year, so far.  They're 3 games under .500 in a division where the Angels are always going to crap the bed, the Astros look like they're finally cooked and the Rangers and Mariners are solid but not world beaters.  

I think a lot of us don't have much of a frame of reference outside of competing in the AL East.  I believe that if you're in a different division than the one where two teams can have sky-high payrolls and one team is consistently in the running for the leanest, most well run team in the game, you probably look at things a little differently in terms of winning your division.  The path the Athletics have to take to get to winning their division isn't as hard as what you have to do in the East in regard to the competition.  Like, the Mariners weren't about to add Soto.

They don't have to nail their rebuild like we had to in order to compete in that division.  And I'm not sure where they are in their rebuild, but I think it's safe to say that they're not at the ground floor and Miller looks to be a big part of them being respectable.

Third, if you believe that Mason Miller is the front runner in the AL for ROY (at least he's in the top 3, I think that's safe to say) I can't remember the last time a team traded a ROY frontrunner at any part of the season.  Not to say it can't happen, but it's unlikely that it will.

All of that is to say that I don't think the Athletics would be shopping him.  They'll take some calls because it's polite to pick up the phone, but when you've got a guy like that and you're on the upswing in your rebuild, you're probably not going to trade him.

Let's leave Basallo, Mayo and whoever else alone and move on.  

Edited May 10 by Moose Milligan

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It’s just a reality check for the fawning that’s going on over Mason Miller who nobody even knew who he was 6 weeks ago. Now everyone is ready to hand over Mayo+ or Basallo+ for this dude. 

Heck no, but that’s just my opinion. Hopefully Elias’ too. Everyone can have their own opinion so fawn away if you desire. 

Mason Miller was #48 on Baseball America’s top 100 going into last year as a starter.  So, just because you don’t know anything about him doesn’t mean he was some unknown.   As a reliever, Miller is dominating as well as any reliever in the history of the game.  Sure, SSS alert, but the whole baseball world is fawning.   Why not?

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

So six weeks makes you an elite closer?  How’s that UCL doing of his?  Has the league seen him 2-3 times yet?  What’s his big moment pedigree?  It’s easy pitching for a team with Oakland’s expectations versus us in the AL East. That team is homeless and expected to lose 100. You can’t get lower than that. I guess contraction level expectations. 

What he’s doing is elite.  His big moment pedigree will be shutting us down in the playoffs when the Dodgers or Yankees give up the farm for him.

He dominated the Yankees for a save in Yankee stadium.  Good enough for me.

Edited May 10 by RZNJ

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Mayo for Miller kind of is. It’s an absurd thought.

It sounds like you are very much against the idea of this kind of trade. I appreciate you expressing your opinion. I just happen to have one that’s a little different. Nothing wrong (in my book) with us disagreeing.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Anyway, in the Athletic yesterday, there was an article about the ROY front runners in the AL.  Mason Miller was #1, Cowser was #2.  The article made note of how guys like Holliday, Langford, Carter and others who were pre-season favorites have not lived up to the hype and/or have been injured. 

A few things here:

First, just because it was on the MLB Network doesn't mean it's real.  That's people getting paid to...well, just talk.  Do we even know that the Athletics would listen to trades for Mason Miller?

Second, the Athletics aren't that bad this year, so far.  They're 3 games under .500 in a division where the Angels are always going to crap the bed, the Astros look like they're finally cooked and the Rangers and Mariner are solid but not world beaters.  

I think a lot of us don't have much of a frame of reference outside of competing in the AL East.  I believe that if you're in a different division where two teams can have sky-high payrolls and one team is consistently in the running for the leanest, most well run team in the game, you probably look at things a little differently in terms of winning your division.  The path the Athletics have to take to get to winning their division isn't as hard as what you have to do in the East in regard to the competition.  Like, the Mariners weren't about to add Soto.

They don't have to nail their rebuild like we had to in order to compete in that division.  And I'm not sure where they are in their rebuild, but I think it's safe to say that they're not at the ground floor and Miller looks to be a big part of them being respectable.

Third, if you believe that Mason Miller is the front runner in the AL for ROY (at least he's in the top 3, I think that's safe to say) I can't remember the last time a team traded a ROY frontrunner at any part of the season.  Not to say it can't happen, but it's unlikely that it will.

All of that is to say that I don't think the Athletics would be shopping him.  They'll take some calls because it's polite to pick up the phone, but when you've got a guy like that and you're on the upswing in your rebuild, you're probably not going to trade him.

Let's leave Basallo, Mayo and whoever else alone and move on.  

The A’s probably aren’t shopping him but that has never stopped us from having “Would you?” conversations so if you have nothing to add on that front ………