The 2024 Trade Deadline

[24fps]

1 hour ago, G54377 said:

I think we all know Kjerstad and Norby are the guys being sent. Everyone wants Mayo or Basallo but there's no reason for us to do that unless we are getting a perennial all star under 2 1/2 or more years of control.

In 2017 the Astros - who had Mike Elias as the director of scouting - traded for 34 year-old Justin Verlander who was under control until 2020 ($28 million vesting option after 2019). They gave up first rounder Daz Cameron, third-rounder Jake Rogers and, at the time, a highly thought of MiL pitcher named Franklin Perez.  In return they got Verlander and his remaining $60 million guarantee, $18 million in salary relief and a PTBNL.

If presented with that kind of opportunity, I think Elias will willingly part with someone like Basallo and more. 

As a general statement not directed at you, I think that most people (including myself at times) seriously underestimates how much professional GM's value players who have proven that they can succeed at the ML level, even to a small degree  I predict that if Elias trades for a genuine difference-maker the cost is going to be well beyond almost everybody here's comfort zone.  I won't be surprised though, and I'll probably support the decision.

Edited June 18 by 24fps

[LGOrioles]

With Texas fading, Yates and Robertson could be solid BP options. Both have great K rates and get a ton of swing and miss.

And Eovaldi could potentially be a rotation option, as mentioned earlier. 

[RZNJ]

51 minutes ago, 24fps said:

In 2017 the Astros - who had Mike Elias as the director of scouting - traded for 34 year-old Justin Verlander who was under control until 2020 ($28 million vesting option after 2019). They gave up first rounder Daz Cameron, third-rounder Jake Rogers and, at the time, a highly thought of MiL pitcher named Franklin Perez.  In return they got Verlander and his remaining $60 million guarantee, $18 million in salary relief and a PTBNL.

If presented with that kind of opportunity, I think Elias will willingly part with someone like Basallo and more. 

As a general statement not directed at you, I think that most people (including myself at times) seriously underestimates how much professional GM's value players who have proven that they can succeed at the ML level, even to a small degree  I predict that if Elias trades for a genuine difference-maker the cost is going to be well beyond almost everybody here's comfort zone.  I won't be surprised though, and I'll probably support the decision.

1. Mike Elias was the scouting director.  Not the GM.   
 

2.  From what I can see, Franklin Perez, was BA #32 prospect but neither Cameron or Rogers were top 100.

3. Which pitcher available is comparable to Verlander in 2017?

[OriolesMagic83]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

1. Mike Elias was the scouting director.  Not the GM.   
 

2.  From what I can see, Franklin Perez, was BA #32 prospect but neither Cameron or Rogers were top 100.

3. Which pitcher available is comparable to Verlander in 2017?

3. There was a lot of second guessing of the Verlander trade at the time.  Verlander was seen by many as a pitcher who's best days where behind him. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

3. There was a lot of second guessing of the Verlander trade at the time.  Verlander was seen by many as a pitcher who's best days where behind him. 

Right, which is why the Tigers kicked in 18M.

[Just Regular]

Verlander being that far underwater helps it make sense how he got through waivers that August.

Money and talent on the seesaw - you can kind of see that trade as the Tigers purchasing the prospects for that sum, and Verlander moving in August 2017 sort of the same way Lucas Giolito moved around in August 2023.

Except that Verlander is a HoF talent, and to that point in his career hadn't had any of the SIg Mejdal stuff, just his HoF talent.

A little of what Elias has to weigh when considering investing talent for contracts that still have forecast surplus value is what other talent might also be available like Reynaldo Lopez last season for simply money.    That said, teams ahead of where BAL is likely to be in the waiver order took the strongest players like that last year.

[Safelykept]

18 hours ago, dystopia said:

The main reason Suarez and Irvin don’t have mire QS is because Hyde often pulls them in the 6th. Both have a lower ERA than Rodon. 

Neither is making the 27 million a year that Rodon. Hes  tied up thru age 35, ITs a Yankee contract,there is no comparison to Rodon and Suarez and Irvin. The Yankees are in typical Yankee spot with his Contract.

[Rustbelt]

One starter that is intriguing is Jose Soriano from the Angels.  It will take some prospect capitals to get him from the Angels.  This is another guy converted to a starter from the bullpen but was a starter in the minors.  He has not thrown many innings so that there may be some inning limits.

[Chromehill]

6 hours ago, Just Regular said:

Verlander being that far underwater helps it make sense how he got through waivers that August.

Money and talent on the seesaw - you can kind of see that trade as the Tigers purchasing the prospects for that sum, and Verlander moving in August 2017 sort of the same way Lucas Giolito moved around in August 2023.

Except that Verlander is a HoF talent, and to that point in his career hadn't had any of the SIg Mejdal stuff, just his HoF talent.

A little of what Elias has to weigh when considering investing talent for contracts that still have forecast surplus value is what other talent might also be available like Reynaldo Lopez last season for simply money.    That said, teams ahead of where BAL is likely to be in the waiver order took the strongest players like that last year.

If I recall correctly, in the Astroball book, the Sig stuff is why the Astros traded for him.  Sig knew Verlander got hit hard when he threw offspeed pitches and was very successful when throwing fastballs/sliders.  The Tigers really did not have an analytics department.  Astros make the trade and have Verlander stick to fastball/sliders and the rest is history.

[Rbiggs2525]

8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

 

3. Which pitcher available is comparable to Verlander in 2017?

I think this is a great point. Verlander was a CY young award winner and finished in the top 3 4 times. Verlander, Kershaw, Scherzer type pitcher are a dying breed. Between bad mechanics and max velocity you just don’t see it anymore. 

[Bemorewins]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Did the decisions do it to the team or the losing?

They guessed wrong and paid the pitchers.

They could have guessed wrong and paid Rendon.

In hindsight you can say well they should have signed player A and B those fools signed C and D instead.

It isn't as if they let everyone walk. 

They couldn't keep everyone.

Everything that you say is true. But they chose not to resign their best two players (Harper and Soto). And that is not what I want for the O’s. It is clear that Gunnar is our best player and it would be a mistake not to bet on your best talent IMO.

[sportsfan8703]

9 hours ago, LGOrioles said:

With Texas fading, Yates and Robertson could be solid BP options. Both have great K rates and get a ton of swing and miss.

And Eovaldi could potentially be a rotation option, as mentioned earlier. 

Interesting. I didn’t realize how poorly of a season Texas was having. Let’s be real though, we probably need Robertston has a middle/set up guy and a high end closer. Eovaldi, if healthy would be a good rotation add if the contract doesn’t hold us back. 

[sportsfan8703]

54 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

I think this is a great point. Verlander was a CY young award winner and finished in the top 3 4 times. Verlander, Kershaw, Scherzer type pitcher are a dying breed. Between bad mechanics and max velocity you just don’t see it anymore. 

Verlander was a once in baseball history type of move. He was an August waiver trade. He had actually cleared waivers. Meaning not even one team just put in a general claim to just take on the rest of his deal. Not even an AL rival put in a claim just to block it ala the Padres with Randy Myers back in the day. 

[Bemorewins]

11 hours ago, 24fps said:

In 2017 the Astros - who had Mike Elias as the director of scouting - traded for 34 year-old Justin Verlander who was under control until 2020 ($28 million vesting option after 2019). They gave up first rounder Daz Cameron, third-rounder Jake Rogers and, at the time, a highly thought of MiL pitcher named Franklin Perez.  In return they got Verlander and his remaining $60 million guarantee, $18 million in salary relief and a PTBNL.

If presented with that kind of opportunity, I think Elias will willingly part with someone like Basallo and more. 

As a general statement not directed at you, I think that most people (including myself at times) seriously underestimates how much professional GM's value players who have proven that they can succeed at the ML level, even to a small degree  I predict that if Elias trades for a genuine difference-maker the cost is going to be well beyond almost everybody here's comfort zone.  I won't be surprised though, and I'll probably support the decision.

Any thoughts on who that “Verlander” like player could be?

I would have said Alcantara but he doesn’t have a larger contract and he is hurt. I can’t identify that kind of player out there right now. None of the obvious selling teams have any really good pitchers. Maybe Berrios or Kikuchi if the Jays decide to sell? But Kikuchi isn’t expensive and is Berios really an ace? Sonny Gray? But the Cards are actually slightly over .500. I just can’t seem to find that kind of guy out there.

[btdart20]

11 hours ago, LGOrioles said:

With Texas fading, Yates and Robertson could be solid BP options. Both have great K rates and get a ton of swing and miss.

And Eovaldi could potentially be a rotation option, as mentioned earlier. 

Maybe.  Jung is coming back soon.  Seager just got started.  DeGrom making his way back.  Has Wyatt turned the rookie corner?