Andy's Mistakes

[RShack]

I agree w/ SG. If that's the case, it's an enormous mistake.

So, if a couple of them show up later this year and look right, and if AM decides to buy a bat, then you think he made an enormous mistake by not buying a bat before he saw that? And if he waits until the following off-season to do it, because he wants to see some good-P in 2010 and then load-ups for 2011, that will be an enormous mistake too? If so, then I guess that means he damn well better buy a big bat this off-season or else he will be guilty of an enormous mistake. Unless, of course, he already made an enormous mistake by not doing it last off-season, in which case it's too late already for him to avoid making an enormous mistake.

Or am I missing something?

Personally, I'm still waiting for his first enormous mistake. So far, there have been claims that he already made several of them but, as it turns out, none those claims seem to hold water. I guess we'll see about this one ;-)

[Lucky Jim]

So, if a couple of them show up later this year and look right, and if AM decides to buy a bat, then you think he made an enormous mistake by not buying a bat before he saw that? And if he waits until the following off-season to do it, because he wants to see some good-P in 2010 and then load-ups for 2011, that will be an enormous mistake too? If so, then I guess that means he damn well better buy a big bat this off-season or else he will be guilty of an enormous mistake. Unless, of course, he already made an enormous mistake by not doing it last off-season, in which case it's too late already for him to avoid making an enormous mistake.

Or am I missing something?

Personally, I'm still waiting for his first enormous mistake. So far, there have been claims that he already made several of them but, as it turns out, none those claims seem to hold water. I guess we'll see about this one ;-)

Please don't wink at me like you're being a clever and funny "nice guy" if instead you're going to act like a condescending ass.

I'm certainly entitled to my opinion that it's a mistake to wait until you have ML level success.

And all I'm offering is my opinion.

So far, I haven't had any problem with AM's slow-play w/ regard to free agents. And I haven't claimed he's made any significant mistakes. So, in addition to refraining from the condescending crap, please don't try to paint me with some generalization.

If you want to point out where I've been wrong about AM so far, please point to a post or two. I know you can't, however.

The reason for my belief that you don't wait if there is a FA fit is that I see no reason why a team would invest a serious portion of its resources (draft pics, trades, etc.) on pitching prospects in bulk (as a means of mitigating the overall riskiness) and then force itself to wait until it sees big league results.

The reason I think this is simple - the inventory of arms is supposed to be doing that work for you, thus you move forward confident that your player development and talent scouting is as good as it needs to be to implement that plan.

To do otherwise is to show a lack of confidence in not just your ability to spot talent, and develop it, but more importantly, it casts doubt on your ability to create a risk management system that takes into account the uncertainty in pitching prospects.

I mean, our entire focus has been on pitching - AM needs to rise or fall on the basis of his administration's ability to recognize and develop talent. Passing up on a viable, productive, valuable FA because of uncertainty about his own prospects runs the risk of jeopardizing that long-term success due to a failure of confidence in his own work, his own people.

That - to me - is unacceptable.

You can disagree. But, for the sake of the conversation, let's avoid papering me with responses to other posters' complaints. And let's avoid the straw men, too. You know, just for the hell of it.

[RShack]

Please don't wink at me like you're being a clever and funny "nice guy" if instead you're going to act like a condescending ass.

I'm certainly entitled to my opinion that it's a mistake to wait until you have ML level success.

And all I'm offering is my opinion.

Of course you are. We all are. Sorry you don't like mine opinion. Evidently, you think my opinion is an enormous mistake. But, there's certainly nothing wrong with you saying that.

However, you really shouldn't be calling somebody else a "condescending ass". I'm not saying that your doing that is an enormous mistake, but it is against board rules, as you well know. As for the idea of you lecturing somebody else about being condescending, well, I'm not gonna say a word about that.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Of course you are. We all are. Sorry you don't like mine opinion. Evidently, you think my opinion is an enormous mistake. But, there's certainly nothing wrong with you saying that.

However, you really shouldn't be calling somebody else a "condescending ass". I'm not saying that your doing that is an enormous mistake, but it is against board rules, as you well know. As for the idea of you lecturing somebody else about being condescending, well, I'm not gonna say a word about that.

Don't complain when you decide to poke the bear and it rips you to shreds.

[Lucky Jim]

Of course you are. We all are. Sorry you don't like mine opinion. Evidently, you think my opinion is an enormous mistake. But, there's certainly nothing wrong with you saying that.

However, you really shouldn't be calling somebody else a "condescending ass". I'm not saying that your doing that is an enormous mistake, but it is against board rules, as you well know. As for the idea of you lecturing somebody else about being condescending, well, I'm not gonna say a word about that.

I'll take the hit on that, I guess.

I made my point. Something you have yet to do.

[Sports Guy]

So, if a couple of them show up later this year and look right, and if AM decides to buy a bat, then you think he made an enormous mistake by not buying a bat before he saw that? And if he waits until the following off-season to do it, because he wants to see some good-P in 2010 and then load-ups for 2011, that will be an enormous mistake too? If so, then I guess that means he damn well better buy a big bat this off-season or else he will be guilty of an enormous mistake. Unless, of course, he already made an enormous mistake by not doing it last off-season, in which case it's too late already for him to avoid making an enormous mistake.

Or am I missing something?

Personally, I'm still waiting for his first enormous mistake. So far, there have been claims that he already made several of them but, as it turns out, none those claims seem to hold water. I guess we'll see about this one ;-)

Why did AM put the biggest contract in franchise history out there for Tex then?

Why did he pursue Burnett?

Or are you going to say that those things didn't happen? Or better yet, were they made up interviews from makeupbaseballstories.com?

Oooo ooo, better yet...were those rumors just silly message board talk?

[TonySoprano]

Why did he pursue Burnett?

You'll have to refresh my memory when that happened. All we heard was we didn't want to go more than three years on him, while Atlanta already had a four-year deal on the table. There wasn't an active pursuit, IMO; I doubt they got as far as their usual foreplay of "discussing parameters."

[Sports Guy]

You'll have to refresh my memory when that happened. All we heard was we didn't want to go more than three years on him, while Atlanta already had a four-year deal on the table. There wasn't an active pursuit, IMO; I doubt they got as far as their usual foreplay of "discussing parameters."

Bottom line is he was willing to give a multi year/long term deal to a pitcher, which RShack said he wouldn't do.

[Lucky Jim]

You'll have to refresh my memory when that happened. All we heard was we didn't want to go more than three years on him, while Atlanta already had a four-year deal on the table. There wasn't an active pursuit, IMO; I doubt they got as far as their usual foreplay of "discussing parameters."

This is correct, I think. AM was willing to look at FAs who he thought we had a market advantage w/r/t. His interest in both Teix and Burnett was only as serious as that advantage. When it proved not to exist, he pulled back.

[TonySoprano]

Bottom line is he was willing to give a multi year/long term deal to a pitcher, which RShack said he wouldn't do.

You're not going to like this, but you're wrong. He wasn't willing to go multi-year on a pitcher, certainly not past three years. Mac talked about the fragility of free agent pitching and cited Zito as an example. "Buy the bats, grow the arms..."

[RShack]

Why did AM put the biggest contract in franchise history out there for Tex then?

Why did he pursue Burnett?

Or are you going to say that those things didn't happen? Or better yet, were they made up interviews from makeupbaseballstories.com?

Oooo ooo, better yet...were those rumors just silly message board talk?

Tex was a special case, as AM clearly stated. Based on available info, I believe he was interested in serious negotiations with Tex's agent but was unwilling to let Boras play him like a fiddle, the way he did BOS.

As for Burnett, I have no news that there was anything of substance there. I have no way to know if there was or not, which means I have no reason to conclude that there was. It may have been "just a rumor" or not. I don't know how to tell if there was anything to it. Do you know how to tell? If so, how do you tell the diff between internet rumors and something real? Please advise.

All I know for sure is that AM said he doesn't think big-bucks FA P's are a good idea. So, unless he could get Burnett either cheap or short-term or both, I doubt it was real.

[Sports Guy]

You're not going to like this, but you're wrong. He wasn't willing to go multi-year on a pitcher, certainly not past three years. Mac talked about the fragility of free agent pitching and cited Zito as an example. "Buy the bats, grow the arms..."

3 years is multi-years, right?

[TonySoprano]

Well, then he is a fool...If you can add game changing talent a year early, you do it.

When the talent is there, go get it.

What happens if the young pitchers don't ever get ready? Just keep sitting around and waiting?

I agree with this point. It's not a given that talent will be there the next year. You take what you get when you can get it. To do otherwise is to put all the eggs in the basket of the "cavalry" of young pitching .

[Sports Guy]

Tex was a special case, as AM clearly stated. Based on available info, I believe he was interested in serious negotiations with Tex's agent but was unwilling to let Boras play him like a fiddle, the way he did BOS.

As for Burnett, I have no news that there was anything of substance there. I have no way to know if there was or not, which means I have no reason to conclude that there was. It may have been "just a rumor" or not. I don't know how to tell if there was anything to it. Do you know how to tell? If so, how do you tell the diff between internet rumors and something real? Please advise.

All I know for sure is that AM said he doesn't think big-bucks FA P's are a good idea. So, unless he could get Burnett either cheap or short-term or both, I doubt it was real.

Oh, so he was a special case huh?

So, then what you said was wrong..Clearly there are situations where AM would go after a big time FA, even before the young pitching is available.

[McNulty]