Nats offer to Strasburg is *roughly* $20 million

[geschinger]

Throwing around terms such as greed and arrogance because someone wants to get what they believe they are worth is just not correct. I would do the same in Strasburg and Crowe's positions. I hope that Boras succeeds in doing something about the total inequity of undrafted FAs who are mostly only 16 yrs old, have no experience even in game situations and a host of suspicions to age and identity, but, command multi-million dollar contracts , while, Americans, Canadians and Puerto Ricans have their contracts artificially lowered because they are subject to the draft.

I agree about the inequities with int'l players. They need to bring international FAs into the same kind of draft system. There is absolutely inherently wrong with a draft system. It's not all that different tha other industries where wages, specific jobs, etc... are determined by tenure. You rarely hear anyone rail against those systems and it is essentially the same thing.

Once in the system, all make relatively low salaries in the MiLs and even once they get to the MLs (until arbitration or multi-year deals, which the latter favor the team). As I have stated earlier, the young players are used (not as badly as College football and basketball players) to increase profits obscenely for the owners. "Older "players (those past the six year team control and are not super stars) are now threatened with early retirement or drastic cuts in salary or both due to the "cheap" young players. This is another management and owner ploy to maximize their gains at the expense of players. You won't see ticket prices go down if salaries go down - bank on that as a given.

Players making their way up through the minor league system are actually making decent wages relative to the revenue they are able to generate. Minor league clubs have to be heavily subsidized by major league teams to generate a profit. The system now in place - arbitration / free agency is a bad one for ownership. Artificially signifcantly reducing the supply of free agents has made the price soar well beyond what it would have in a less restricted market. This works to the players advantage. The lesser "older" players may get squeezed out but that is primarily because the stars are getting an over sized portion of the payroll pie. Regardless of what changes were made to the system the % of revenues that go into player salaries would not change all that much. What might is that the allocation of the resources among the players might look a lot different.

[JTrea81]

Pretty sure MacPhail remembers the last "Strasburg" and how that turned out for him and the Cubbies.

No way in Hades does he touch Strasburg for the money he wants...

[Sports Guy]

I heard Keith Law today say that he thought the offer was around 12-14 million and that he didn't think Strasburg would sign that.

How insane would that be?

[Hank Scorpio]

I heard Keith Law today say that he thought the offer was around 12-14 million and that he didn't think Strasburg would sign that.

How insane would that be?

That would be flat out stupidity on Boras' behalf. I love the quote from Kasten, where he said, "If this is about changing the way an industry does business, we're not interested."

Classic.

[wickedwitch]

Pretty sure MacPhail remembers the last "Strasburg" and how that turned out for him and the Cubbies.

No way in Hades does he touch Strasburg for the money he wants...

According to Fangraphs, Prior was worth much more than the Cubs payed him.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=301&position=P#value

[ejf1025]

It's not all that different tha other industries where wages, specific jobs, etc... are determined by tenure. You rarely hear anyone rail against those systems and it is essentially the same thing.

Whoa. It's NOTHING like those systems.

1) Baseball in this country is a complete monopoly, there are realistically no other leagues where a player can earn fair wages for his skill.

2) Many of the "seniority" created wages in other industries are normally based off union rules, those systems are in place to protect the worker. Clearly, the draft is in place to protect the owners.

Bottomline: The draft gives the players almost no rights. If they want to continue in baseball, they are forced to work for a specific team at a below market wage. If they choose not to sign, they have to go through the same process again--ad infinitum, until their market value falls drastically and they go undrafted.

That is unfair...and not like any other industry. Not even close.

[geschinger]

Whoa. It's NOTHING like those systems.

1) Baseball in this country is a complete monopoly, there are realistically no other leagues where a player can earn fair wages for his skill.

2) Many of the "seniority" created wages in other industries are normally based off union rules, those systems are in place to protect the worker. Clearly, the draft is in place to protect the owners.

The MLB Draft is subject to collective bargaining with the the players' union. Not all that different than "seniority" created wages in other industries.

Bottomline: The draft gives the players almost no rights. If they want to continue in baseball, they are forced to work for a specific team at a below market wage. If they choose not to sign, they have to go through the same process again--ad infinitum, until their market value falls drastically and they go undrafted.

That is unfair...and not like any other industry. Not even close.

It all depends on how narrowly things are defined. If you define each team as it's own entity with no connection to a larger entity then maybe a case can be made that it is unfair. But all 30 teams are part of this bigger entity called MLB of which equitable distribution of amateur talent is a goal. If a player wants to pursue an MLB career it might mean an assignment early in their career to division of that entity that they wouldn't otherwise choose.

[DrungoHazewood]

It's not all that different tha other industries where wages, specific jobs, etc... are determined by tenure. You rarely hear anyone rail against those systems and it is essentially the same thing.

Yes, we've heard your ideas about how teachers having to choose between 1000s of school systems instead of the one their current house is in is the same thing as baseball players being tied to the organization that drafted them for as many as 11 years.

I still think that's an apples to flying elephants comparison.

Minor league clubs have to be heavily subsidized by major league teams to generate a profit.

Yes, that's true. But it is only true because the MLB owners bought out the minors and the minor league operators have to try to sell a sports team to the public that doesn't have winning as a primary goal. Of course Bowie doesn't make a profit without the Orioles - the Orioles send them a "team" of players, most of whom aren't anything like prospects, call them up and take them away on a whim, and only barely pretend to care about the EL pennant race. How can any business turn a profit when they're basically forced to sell a product that they have no choice in? There's only so much you can do when Myron Noodleman and the San Diego Chicken are bigger draws than Freddy Deza.

Independent leagues apparently do all right without a penny of MLB subsidy. Some, like the Northern League, have been turning a profit for going on 20 years now. Probably because they're allowed to try to win.

[ejf1025]

The MLB Draft is subject to collective bargaining with the the players' union. Not all that different than "seniority" created wages in other industries.

It all depends on how narrowly things are defined. If you define each team as it's own entity with no connection to a larger entity then maybe a case can be made that it is unfair. But all 30 teams are part of this bigger entity called MLB of which equitable distribution of amateur talent is a goal. If a player wants to pursue an MLB career it might mean an assignment early in their career to division of that entity that they wouldn't otherwise choose.

It may have been collectively bargained, but it is a system that is driven and supported by the owners or industry...the union would surely do away with the draft if they could. Again, other wage systems based on tenure, etc are in place to protect workers...this is not. Not really sure how you can argue this or compare the two.

Furthermore, single entity or 30 entities, doesn't matter. The players would clearly be earning more in a free market and the draft does not allow them to enter the free market unless they sign. Thus, they cannot earn fair compensation with their employer nor does the system allow them to go practice their trade anywhere else since MLB is a monopoly.

I understand that people think the money thrown around is out of control...but that's a different debate. If you look at the draft strictly from a labor standpoint, it's completely anti-worker and to compare it to other industries does not work.

[waroriole]

It may have been collectively bargained, but it is a system that is driven and supported by the owners or industry...the union would surely do away with the draft if they could. Again, other wage systems based on tenure, etc are in place to protect workers...this is not. Not really sure how you can argue this or compare the two.

In every union contract there are provisions that each side would do away with if they could. Each one is making concessions, not writing the thing themselves. This is also in place to protect the veteran workers b/c the less money that is spent on the draft is more money to spend on veteran players.

[ejf1025]

In every union contract there are provisions that each side would do away with if they could. Each one is making concessions, not writing the thing themselves. This is also in place to protect the veteran workers b/c the less money that is spent on the draft is more money to spend on veteran players.

Yes, I understand. But he is comparing the draft to seniority in other industries. That comparison doesn't work. One is used by labor to protect and ensure fair practices and stop exploitation. The other is used by ownership to control and cap labor wages.

And it's not in place to protect veterans...if you believe that, I have waterfront in Iowa to sell you.

[waroriole]

Yes, I understand. But he is comparing the draft to seniority in other industries. That comparison doesn't work. One is used by labor to protect and ensure fair practices and stop exploitation. The other is used by ownership to control and cap labor wages.

And it's not in place to protect veterans...if you believe that, I have waterfront in Iowa to sell you.

Don't you think management in other industries believes that they are controlling wages by "capping" starting pay.

[TGO]

Yes, I understand. But he is comparing the draft to seniority in other industries. That comparison doesn't work. One is used by labor to protect and ensure fair practices and stop exploitation. The other is used by ownership to control and cap labor wages.

And it's not in place to protect veterans...if you believe that, I have waterfront in Iowa to sell you.

It is, to a degree. The union is made up of professional baseball players and is dominated by Major League baseball players. The union represents their interests. They really don't care that much about the concerns of current high schoolers and collegians.

[waroriole]

It is, to a degree. The union is made up of professional baseball players and is dominated by Major League baseball players. The union represents their interests. They really don't care that much about the concerns of current high schoolers and collegians.

And they shouldn't as they are not members of the union. The union is there to represent current members, not potential ones.

[ejf1025]

Don't you think management in other industries believes that they are controlling wages by "capping" starting pay.

Yes, and if someone didn't want that wage or thought they were worth more they could seek employment elsewhere and begin work immediately.

If amateur players don't agree, they have to sit out for a year and then come back and be subject to the exact same problem. Over and over.