Coaching, coaching, coaching

[mweb]

It means that it is very obvious that you don't understand the difference between pure talent and having a very good team.

For you to take that to mean I think they overachieved(which BTW, I know for a fact you didn't pick them to be 13-3 in the ACC, thus they overachieved for you) tells me all I need to know about this conversation with you.

Again, you're not getting what I'm saying. I'm also not saying they didn't overachieve, just think you've overestimated it. Nice to see you take shots at me, but don't respond to the other part of my last post. Anyway, I'm sorry to the board for my part in taking this small aspect of SG's post that I otherwise agreed with, and making it into this debate. Of course, I was not alone, but ok.

[hoosiers]

Agree 1000% about the importance of coaching in college basketball.

I'd like to chime in on the importance of having good kids with quality/respectable academic credentials playing for my university. Some fans and schools only care about winning - and I can understand that to a point.

Regarding Gary Williams, he is an excellent coach, but seems to have tremendous difficulty recruiting top high school prospects over a consistent period of time. Maryland is Gary's dream job for obvious reasons, but IMO he would have had more success overall if he had stayed at Ohio State.

[PaulBako]

Maryland is Gary's dream job for obvious reasons, but IMO he would have had more success overall if he had stayed at Ohio State.

Uhm explain please.

[hoosiers]

Uhm explain please.

Explain what? He would have won more at OSU. The team he left behind at OSU was higher ranked than just about two or three teams he's had at UMd. It's much easier to recruit and win at OSU than UMd.

[mweb]

Explain what? He would have won more at OSU. The team he left behind at OSU was higher ranked than just about two or three teams he's had at UMd. It's much easier to recruit and win at OSU than UMd.

It may be easier to win due to competition, but I don't see why it's easier to recruit. MD is in a recruiting hot spot, in high prestige conference, is in a better location imo, has some history, and has great facilities. It's also a basketball school, where OSU is a football school. I know they've recruited better of late, but I think that has more to do with the coaches than anything.

[Sports Guy]

Explain what? He would have won more at OSU. The team he left behind at OSU was higher ranked than just about two or three teams he's had at UMd. It's much easier to recruit and win at OSU than UMd.

This really isn't true....The Baltimore/DC area has arguably the best basketball in high school.

MD has the best arena in the sport if you are looking at it from a pure facilities standpoint.

They have under armour backing as well.

MD is also in the ACC, which is usually the better basketball conference.

BTW, back to the coaching...You are a big 10 guy...The coaching in the big 10 is superb and one of the reasons I think you are seeing them do a pretty good job in the tourney over the last few years.

[mweb]

BTW, to go further into detail regarding being third in wins since the title, MD has won 71 conference games in the last 8 years, good for just under 9 wins a year. Doesn't include the tourney.

So solid, and yes better than the others schools, but the newcomers weren't around the first 2-3 years, and I don't think it's that great of an accomplishment beating out the other mediocre or up and down programs for 3rd, especially considering MD was coming off the title.

Now, I love Gary and what he's done for the program, and never advocated firing him, but the program really hasn't been as strong as most of us would have liked during that time period. 5 tourney appearances in 8 years. They had 11 straight tourney appearances which ended in 2005. And they haven't made the Sweet 16 since 2003.

So again, Gary is a great coach, but in part due to the standard he set, the results since the title have been disappointing. I still want him as the coach until he retires though.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, to go further into detail regarding being third in wins since the title, MD has won 71 conference games in the last 8 years, good for just under 9 wins a year. Doesn't include the tourney.

So solid, and yes better than the others schools, but the newcomers weren't around the first 2-3 years, and I don't think it's that great of an accomplishment beating out the other mediocre or up and down programs for 3rd, especially considering MD was coming off the title.

Now, I love Gary and what he's done for the program, and never advocated firing him, but the program really hasn't been as strong as most of us would have liked during that time period. 5 tourney appearances in 8 years. They had 11 straight tourney appearances which ended in 2005. And they haven't made the Sweet 16 since 2003.

So again, Gary is a great coach, but in part due to the standard he set, the results since the title have been disappointing. I still want him as the coach until he retires though.

Here's the thing...If guys like Gaudio, Purnell, Hamilton and Lowe were the coach of MD over those years instead of Gary, they would have far far less wins.

He gets so much out of his guys...I really believe that he gets more out of less better than anyone in the country...Not to say that he hasn't had talent but he hasn't had great talent as a whole.

[mweb]

Here's the thing...If guys like Gaudio, Purnell, Hamilton and Lowe were the coach of MD over those years instead of Gary, they would have far far less wins.

He gets so much out of his guys...I really believe that he gets more out of less better than anyone in the country...Not to say that he hasn't had talent but he hasn't had great talent as a whole.

That's fine, and I don't want those guys as MD's coach. I don't know that he's best in the country in that regard, but I don't pay enough attention to non-ACC basketball most years to argue one way or the other.

[ccbird]

BTW, to go further into detail regarding being third in wins since the title, MD has won 71 conference games in the last 8 years, good for just under 9 wins a year. Doesn't include the tourney.

So solid, and yes better than the others schools, but the newcomers weren't around the first 2-3 years, and I don't think it's that great of an accomplishment beating out the other mediocre or up and down programs for 3rd, especially considering MD was coming off the title.

Now, I love Gary and what he's done for the program, and never advocated firing him, but the program really hasn't been as strong as most of us would have liked during that time period. 5 tourney appearances in 8 years. They had 11 straight tourney appearances which ended in 2005. And they haven't made the Sweet 16 since 2003.

So again, Gary is a great coach, but in part due to the standard he set, the results since the title have been disappointing. I still want him as the coach until he retires though.

This is where we are as a program. This year is the peak. Now, we build back up and hope to make another Sweet 16 run in 2 or 3 years. I've been consistent with my take on Gary for awhile now. I look forward to the day when we have a chance to be the program I know we can be. That doesn't mean I want Gary fired. It means I respect what he has done enough that I'm willing to accept the program for what it is until he is ready to leave. I don't know what will happen to this program once Gary leaves. I'm fully aware that things might be worse when the next guy gets here but I'm ready to take that chance. I think in general Md fans are too scared worrying about the program post Gary but there is no doubt in my mind he doesn't have us near our ceiling as a program. I don't think my expectations are too high. If Ralph had the football program at the place where our basketball program is now I would be content. There is only so much I expect from the MD football program. I have no delusions that we should be a top 15 program in football. Basketball, I absolutely believe we should be a top 15 program with the potential to be top 10.

Maybe I'll get ripped here for my take above on a day like today but it's the way I feel. It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy this year. It was a fun ride, but the underlying state of the program has always been in my mind. I can't say that I was distraught and disappointed with today's loss because this team basically met the expectations I had for it. If we had a legit Final Four team and we lost the way we lost I would've been inconsolable for the next week.

[grady41]

Unbelievable, a program MD could be? Gary has done more for MD basketball then anyone here knows ( alot know alot here but) . If it wasnt for Gary there would be no Comcast Center. Thousands of dollars for the school have been raised by Gary. You could say he has helped alot of the miner sports,(soccer, field hockey ect) have the money to compete. Yet, some are not happy and wish he would retire or leave.

I sat thru the Len Bias death, the Bob Wade years and Garys early years. I also got to see the 2 Final Fours and the Championship. People want him gone? Come on, he doesnt cheat, bend the rules or kiss the asses of the AAU teams. He does it his way and wins more often then not. Is he the best recruiter, no but he gets who he wants and wins with what he has.

And I am not ashamed to loose to Mich St, Izzo is a class act and if you have to loose he is one I can stomach the loss to. He does it right too.

[ccbird]

Unbelievable, a program MD could be? Gary has done more for MD basketball then anyone here knows ( alot know alot here but) . If it wasnt for Gary there would be no Comcast Center. Thousands of dollars for the school have been raised by Gary. You could say he has helped alot of the miner sports,(soccer, field hockey ect) have the money to compete. Yet, some are not happy and wish he would retire or leave.

I sat thru the Len Bias death, the Bob Wade years and Garys early years. I also got to see the 2 Final Fours and the Championship. People want him gone? Come on, he doesnt cheat, bend the rules or kiss the asses of the AAU teams. He does it his way and wins more often then not. Is he the best recruiter, no but he gets who he wants and wins with what he has.

And I am not ashamed to loose to Mich St, Izzo is a class act and if you have to loose he is one I can stomach the loss to. He does it right too.

No one is disrespecting Gary. I don't know why everytime anyone says they expect more from this program people take it as an insult to what Gary has done here. Everything you said is right. Gary did build this program back up and has and continues to mean a lot to this university. As I said, he absolutely deserves the chance to go out on his terms and if we never get past the 2nd round in the NCAA tourny during his remaining time I'll deal with it. Still, the fact remains that he does not have this program near it's potential. All I'm saying is I look forward to the post Gary era, whenever that may be, with optimism and hope while many Maryland fans assume things are going to be worse than they are now.

[Sports Guy]

No one is disrespecting Gary. I don't know why everytime anyone says they expect more from this program people take it as an insult to what Gary has done here. Everything you said is right. Gary did build this program back up and has and continues to mean a lot to this university. As I said, he absolutely deserves the chance to go out on his terms and if we never get past the 2nd round in the NCAA tourny during his remaining time I'll deal with it. Still, the fact remains that he does not have this program near it's potential. All I'm saying is I look forward to the post Gary era, whenever that may be, with optimism and hope while many Maryland fans assume things are going to be worse than they are now.

I don't think this is a fact....There is a lot to love about the potential of this program...DC/balt area, Comcast, etc....But despite all of that, MD should usually be a program that is around that 20-30 range and I think that's about where they are...Some years they will be better, others worse.

I think part of the problem is people expect too much out of the program.

[Birds of B'more]

I don't think this is a fact....There is a lot to love about the potential of this program...DC/balt area, Comcast, etc....But despite all of that, MD should usually be a program that is around that 20-30 range and I think that's about where they are...Some years they will be better, others worse.

I think part of the problem is people expect too much out of the program.

MD's ceiling is higher than that. They have the potential to be a consistent 10-20 team, IMO.

[Sports Guy]

MD's ceiling is higher than that. They have the potential to be a consistent 10-20 team' date=' IMO.[/quote']

I am not sure I agree...We have had this discussion a lot on here. MD is one of the schools that certainly could be up there but I think 10-20 is expecting too much.