Anybody Else Wonder Why DT Didn't Pinch Run For Atkins?

[Stotle]

For the record, since I didn't give an alternative when I stated that I don't agree with running on contact in that situation (late game, no outs), my preference would have been as follows:

1. Pinch run Lugo for Atkins

2. Safety squeeze from Roberts

This is part of what annoys me about Roberts bunting so seldom. A situation like this is perfect for a simple bunt with a fast runner. Add in that Roberts didn't look comfortable at the plate all night, and had limited in-game at bats this spring to work on his timing, and this should have been a seriously considered option.

What is the downside? Atkins is thrown out at home and you get the 1st and 2nd/1 out situation Tony is pointing to as the the reason for running on contact. If Roberts puts down a good bunt, you can score a run without a throw. If Roberts puts down a bad bunt, you still force Pena or Longoria to make a tough play.

FWIW, I agree with Tony that running on contact may be the textbook play, but I disagree that it's necessarily the best option in that particular situation. Further, if it is the call I think you need to put a little more speed in there if it's available on your bench.

[Cokeman]

Now you're ASSUMING he was told to run on contact and didn't make a mental error. That is why I said this is the worst kind of hindsight. There's way too many factors here. You keep saying Lugo doesn't have to take that lead..., maybe he's taking that big of a lead because he wants to, or maybe Lugo gets thrown out trying to steal second if he's pinch running, WHO KNOWS WHO KNOWS WHO KNOWS is the basic point I'm trying to get across here.

A LOT of things went wrong for the O's that play and a LOT of things went right for the Rays. Your second guessing of PR Atkins at that stage is waaaaaaaaaaay down on the "things that went wrong" and even then is more of a "might have been different...maybe...coulda been, mighta."

Since he would have already been on second base, that would have certainly been a boneheaded play.

[The Wedge]

Since he would have already been on second base, that would have certainly been a boneheaded play.

Well, I've had a lot of my Sox fan friends telling me how boneheaded he is, so I guess I sort of Freudian slipped that.

[mark_beckens]

I don't disagree. The DECISION to have him running on contact was beyond poor. That falls on DT. He should have been told to hold on any ball hit to third or first and only run on balls hit to short or second.

How do you know he had him running on contact? Did you read it somewhere? Did he call you and tell you?

[PBR Street Gang]

For the record, since I didn't give an alternative when I stated that I don't agree with running on contact in that situation (late game, no outs), my preference would have been as follows:

1. Pinch run Lugo for Atkins

2. Safety squeeze from Roberts

If Trembley would have done that I would have immediately called for MacPhail to give him an extension.

My only gripe with Trembley is that he rarely thinks outside the box and if he does it ain't that far.

[Old#5fan]

How do you know he had him running on contact? Did you read it somewhere? Did he call you and tell you?

No, but if you know anything at all about Major League Baseball along with applying some basic common sense, you would be fairly certain that a mediocre speedster (meaning fairly slow) guy like Atkins would have to be given the signal to take such a bold measure. Otherwise, DT would probably want to send him to Norfolk on the next train.

[Mike B]

I personally thought DT might not only have pinch run Lugo but maybe put the squeeze on with Roberts at the plate. I thought this due to the fact the Orioles were terrible all night with RISP and that is what managers do when they desparately need an insurance run in a tight game and have a good bunter at the plate (Roberts).

I like DT as a person, a speaker, and he does certain things really well. However, his in-game managing has a lot to be desired.

You do not take out your best defender at any position up a run in the 9th. The squeeze is an interesting idea with Roberts not comfortable yet but did you notice where Longoria caught the ball. He was playing in. Soriano being a right hander falls to the first base side so the lines were covered.

Second guessing is a past time here, even if it is not right.

[Old#5fan]

If Trembley would have done that I would have immediately called for MacPhail to give him an extension.

My only gripe with Trembley is that he rarely thinks outside the box and if he does it ain't that far.

I totally agree with you on DT. He's a likeable, articulate manager, and handles the pitchers and makes pitching changes much better than Hargrove or Perlozzo, yet his in -game decisions are not good most of the time, especially regarding base running types.

[mark_beckens]

No, but if you know anything at all about Major League Baseball along with applying some basic common sense, you would be fairly certain that a mediocre speedster (meaning fairly slow) guy like Atkins would have to be given the signal to take such a bold measure. Otherwise, DT would probably want to send him to Norfolk on the next train.

Since you're questioning my knowledge of baseball. Tell me, you play the game? What level? Win any awards? Get a baseball scholarship to play in college? Play minor league ball? Play semi-pro? Ever coach?

[Old#5fan]

Since you're questioning my knowledge of baseball. Tell me, you play the game? What level? Win any awards? Get a baseball scholarship to play in college? Play minor league ball? Play semi-pro? Ever coach?

I started playing baseball in 1963 competitively and have been watching major league baseball since attending my first game in 1963. Obviously, you don't know much about the game or you wouldn't ask such questions. Seeing through you is like looking through paper mache. You aren't fooling anyone so just stop with the inane interrogation. If you would act more nicely I would gladly share with you anything I know.

[PaulFolk]

Dave Trembley speaks about the Atkins play-- and he explains it just about perfectly.

"First and third, nobody out, you go on a ground ball. Would you rather have a double play and two outs and a guy at third, or would you rather have one out and guys at first and second? Would you rather have two more outs to play with or would you rather have one out to play with and a guy on. It's basic baseball. When it's first and third and no outs or one out, you go on a ground ball. It's not on contact because when it's no outs and you go on contact, they hit a line drive and it's a double play in the infield.

"Would you rather have a 5-4-3 double play or would you rather have first and second, one out, with the guy batting in the two hole and the guy batting in the three hole coming up? Juan Samuel is the third base coach and a very good one. The play was done correctly.

"What made it not look so good was Longoria booted it. But you don't know that. You're going on the ground. You're reading contact down. You're not going as soon as the ball is hit. You're going contact down. You see a ground ball, you go."

http://masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2010/04/revisiting-the-atkins-play.html

[Stotle]

Dave Trembley speaks about the Atkins play-- and he explains it just about perfectly.

"First and third, nobody out, you go on a ground ball. Would you rather have a double play and two outs and a guy at third, or would you rather have one out and guys at first and second? Would you rather have two more outs to play with or would you rather have one out to play with and a guy on. It's basic baseball. When it's first and third and no outs or one out, you go on a ground ball. It's not on contact because when it's no outs and you go on contact, they hit a line drive and it's a double play in the infield.

"Would you rather have a 5-4-3 double play or would you rather have first and second, one out, with the guy batting in the two hole and the guy batting in the three hole coming up? Juan Samuel is the third base coach and a very good one. The play was done correctly.

"What made it not look so good was Longoria booted it. But you don't know that. You're going on the ground. You're reading contact down. You're not going as soon as the ball is hit. You're going contact down. You see a ground ball, you go."

http://masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2010/04/revisiting-the-atkins-play.html

I think that's where this discussion already ended up, and the position Tony was explaining. I understand the generality, but I don't think it's a reality that Longoria is going to be able to check the runner, then start a 5-4-3 double-play and have it completed in the 4.1-4.2 seconds it takes Roberts to get to 1st from the left side.

I understand why the baseball book says to run on a groundball in that situation -- I disagree that you can't look at a situation and decide that the textbook generality cannot be deviated from. Not saying I'm right and Trembley is wrong. Just saying I disagree there is only one way to handle the situation (even without getting into my safety squeeze post).

[Owatcher]

No because he's a terrible manager. Not surprised by anything dumb he does anymore.

[PaulFolk]

No because he's a terrible manager. Not surprised by anything dumb he does anymore.

Outstanding insight that adds a lot to the discussion; thank you.

[Mike B]

No because he's a terrible manager. Not surprised by anything dumb he does anymore.

Well you can not beat logic like that.