Bunt to break up a no-no? (Longoria vs Braden)

[SammyBirdland]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Braden-s-perfecto-could-ve-ended-on-an-unwritten?urn=mlb,239740

Braden's perfecto could've ended on an unwritten rule violation

With a perfect game and a hug from his grandma, Dallas Braden's(notes) Mother's Day had an ending suitable for framing.

The funny part is that the Oakland A's pitcher could have found himself in the similar position of angrily trying to teach a star third baseman from the American League East about the unwritten rules of baseball.

With no outs in the fifth inning and Oakland winning 4-0, Tampa Bay's Evan Longoria(notes) tried to get aboard with a bunt. The attempt went foul and Longoria ended up striking out while swinging, but his debatable breach of etiquette did not go unnoticed. The partisan crowd at the Oakland Coliseum booed (though Braden was able to keep his composure just a little bit better than the time Alex Rodriguez(notes) walked over his pitcher's mound).

I say debatable, of course, because not everyone is against bunting to break up a pitcher's bid for history. And — what are the odds? — those people are usually in the crew that's being dragged kicking and screaming into the halls of history.

From MLB.com:

(Rays manager Joe) Maddon said he was fine with Longoria's attempt to get something started with a bunt, although some might consider that a violation of one of baseball's unwritten rules.

"We're trying to score runs there," Maddon said. "We're not just trying to permit him to go into the record books. Our intent is to win the game. And actually if he gets it down, who knows what could have happened. That's one of those other unwritten rules that I'm not a subscriber to."

Bunting to break up a perfect game or no-hitter might just be the most controversial unwritten rule in the unwritten book. And it's probably the most confusing, too. If Ichiro Suzuki(notes) can lead off a game with a bunt single to get things started — hey, the pitcher had a perfect game going then, too — why can't another player do it a few innings later?

[Rewind: Braden slams A-Rod for other unwritten rule.]

But squaring around on a bunt in the later innings just doesn't seem kosher, so are we just talking about timing here? And maybe the margin on the scoreboard? If so, when is the cutoff on bunting? What's the minimum lead a team needs to hold before bunting becomes a no-no?

In this case, I can't side with Maddon and Longoria. Yes, the "get things going" argument might hold water if it wasn't Tampa Bay's best power hitter that was trying to bunt his way aboard. But a Longoria homer or a double to the gap could have sparked things just as easily — and might have even been more likely to happen than a bunt — so I think we have to wonder if the possibility of being on the wrong side of a perfect game for the second straight season was creeping into the mind of the Rays. Braden and the A's would've had a right to be peeved if Longoria's bunt had stayed fair and he found his way aboard.

What do you think?

[SammyBirdland]

Personally, if I'm a manager, I say do whatever it takes to get on base. I couldn't care less about your "perfect game", my job is to get on the board and win the game. If it takes a bunt to get the offense going, then bunt.

If my bunt breaks up your perfect game, then it wasn't meant to be.

[scOtt]

IMO, a bunt in 5th is ok. Maybe even the 6th. After that it's gets cheaper and cheaper.

[Can_of_corn]

4-0 score I am not in favor of sending your best overall hitter up there to bunt for a hit. If the game was 2-0, 1-0 or scoreless then I would not have an issue. Normally the best way to get a rally started is not via bunt single by one of your power guys.

[SammyBirdland]

See, isn't it nice to not have power guys on your team so you don't have to think about these things?

[JamesI]

When Longoria did it it was still early enough. Late in a game it shouldn't be done unless the game is close. Its 1-0 or 2-0 or something like that late in a no-hitter, the goal is getting someone on to win. If its 11-0, well, stillt ry to hit but bunting is probably out.

[Frobby]

I think 4-0 is close enough where you do whatever you have to do to get on base. It it was 8-0 that might be different.

[Miller192]

I had a no-hitter broken up by a bunt in a college game.

He took the first pitch of his next AB in his ear hole. He ducked under it but I got ejected.

No hard feelings after that.

[PrivateO]

I would probably do it in this situation that Longoria was in.

I'd want to break up the perfect game at all costs. If I was a fan of the pitcher though, I'd be furious.

[beaner]

I'm with the guys who say it's ok in the 5th inning. Anything 7th or beyond would be "uncool" so to speak. Here's hoping this whole "unwritten rule" thing doesn't get out of hand.

[H0smash]

It's one thing if it was Jason Bartlett trying to bunt for a basehit, but Evan Longoria? Are you serious? Not only was that classless but how would that jumpstart the offense/get anything going? He's their best hitter, if he can't get a REAL hit, then I don't think any of the other guys would have much confidence going up there. How about swiging away, put a double in the gap or hit a solo HR, now that might jumpstart the offense.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Here's a question I'd like to ask anyone that thinks in the general terms (not the idea of close games versus blowouts, for example) of bunting being taboo under the circumstances.

Let's say that a pitcher has a no-hitter, even as late as the ninth inning. A guy gets on first by walk or error, than the next batter comes up to try and sacrifice the guy to second. In the course of that bunt, it goes in just the right spot to give him an infield hit.

Did he break the rule by bunting for a hit?

My opinion on the whole issue is that unwritten rules in general are stupid. The ones that suggest an opponent should not do whatever it takes to win a game are even worse. So this whole bunting "rule" is just the forlorn hope of pitchers or managers angry that they or their teammates could not do what was needed to get that batter out.

[Frobby]

Here is what Jim Palmer, Bert Blyleven and Rich Gossage had to say on this topic last week:

Is bunting to break up a no-hitter a violation of baseball's unwritten rules?

Palmer: "Heck, I did it in Little League against [a kid] because he was going to strike out 18 out of 18. I pitched a no-hitter and [the Orioles] scored eight runs, but it might be the appropriate play. It's part of the game. Plus, if a guy can bunt, I usually want my infielders playing in to defend the bunt anyway.''

Blyleven: "Your goal as a hitter is to get on. And if the third baseman is playing back and letting you lay down a bunt, I don't have a problem with that even if it's late in a no-hitter. Their goal is to try to win the game -- not to help a guy get a no-hitter.''

Gossage: "I never took offense to that. Nolan Ryan used to take offense to guys trying to bunt off him. Nolan used to give guys his so-called 'bow tie.' I just figured it's part of a hitter's job. And I was a guy you could bunt on, because I couldn't field anything on the third-base side.

"Usually a no-hitter is a tight ballgame, and they're trying to beat you. You need baserunners, and I can't blame the opposition for trying to get on base. If the game is out of reach, then it's a different story. I would take offense to that. I'd drill the SOB. 'If you want to get on base, here, I'll put you on base.'''

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&page=starting9/100505

[Spoonless]

Here's a question I'd like to ask anyone that thinks in the general terms (not the idea of close games versus blowouts, for example) of bunting being taboo under the circumstances.

Let's say that a pitcher has a no-hitter, even as late as the ninth inning. A guy gets on first by walk or error, than the next batter comes up to try and sacrifice the guy to second. In the course of that bunt, it goes in just the right spot to give him an infield hit.

Did he break the rule by bunting for a hit?

My opinion on the whole issue is that unwritten rules in general are stupid. The ones that suggest an opponent should not do whatever it takes to win a game are even worse. So this whole bunting "rule" is just the forlorn hope of pitchers or managers angry that they or their teammates could not do what was needed to get that batter out.

In your example, the game would have to be close enough for a sacrifice bunt to be a good play, so it's not breaking the unwritten rule. You're not going to be playing for one run (as sacrificing a runner to second base is) when you're down 11-0 or anything like that.

[BaltimoreTerp]

In your example, the game would have to be close enough for a sacrifice bunt to be a good play, so it's not breaking the unwritten rule. You're not going to be playing for one run (as sacrificing a runner to second base is) when you're down 11-0 or anything like that.

What if it's 4-0? Maybe even 5- or 6-0, depending on the inning? That's not an unreasonable comeback. Even by those scores, there's still a lot of managers that would try and bunt a guy over to at least get a run and maybe start a rally.