Would You Trade Matusz and Tillman or Arietta for Cahill?

[Sanfran327]

If you were to put Lincecum in the AL and in KC and you put Greinke in pitchers paradise, what is the difference then?

Fair question. I do not know the answer.

You get Roy Halladay.

[Mackus]

Look, I know you have major reading comprehension issues, but my first post in this thread didn't jump all over you. My post clearly was addressed to the folks that respond to you. I simply wrote that I don't get what anyone would get out of interacting with you. I stand by that, because you don't listen and you don't change your mind. You bluster.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2194622&postcount=28

My post had nothing to do with the question you asked. The question is fine, though some of the answers have surprised me (Frobby's post shocked me). The OTHER discussion that doesn't involve you in this thread is fine and interesting.

I've got no problem having hypothetical or fun discussions about a range of topics. I just prefer to have them with someone whose opinion I want to hear. I don't want to hear your opinion so I wouldn't engage you. That was my whole point. You absolutely have a right to post your opinions. They absolutely have a right to respond to those opinions and try to shout you down with logic for the 4 bazilionth time. I just don't get what they get out of it. I get what you get out of it. I think you enjoy acting like a fool so long as you're getting attention. I try to avoid interacting with fools. But maybe I'm wrong. After all, it is just my opinion.

Haha, awesome.

[Stotle]

You get Roy Halladay.

Lincey strikes out a good amount more and walks a good amount more than does Halladay, no? Different approaches.

[Old#5fan]

The A's have everything better than us...and yet they are still a mediocre team overall.

They own us. It just goes to show you how far away we are from even mediocrity.

Sad but very valid point!

[Old#5fan]

Look, I know you have major reading comprehension issues, but my first post in this thread didn't jump all over you. My post clearly was addressed to the folks that respond to you. I simply wrote that I don't get what anyone would get out of interacting with you. I stand by that, because you don't listen and you don't change your mind. You bluster.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2194622&postcount=28

My post had nothing to do with the question you asked. The question is fine, though some of the answers have surprised me (Frobby's post shocked me). The OTHER discussion that doesn't involve you in this thread is fine and interesting.

I've got no problem having hypothetical or fun discussions about a range of topics. I just prefer to have them with someone whose opinion I want to hear. I don't want to hear your opinion so I wouldn't engage you. That was my whole point. You absolutely have a right to post your opinions. They absolutely have a right to respond to those opinions and try to shout you down with logic for the 4 bazilionth time. I just don't get what they get out of it. I get what you get out of it. I think you enjoy acting like a fool so long as you're getting attention. I try to avoid interacting with fools. But maybe I'm wrong. After all, it is just my opinion.

You were doing okay until you had to call me a fool. That isn't right and you know it.

[Old#5fan]

Haha, awesome.

Ha, Ha awesome. Wow, what an insightful post.

[MarkakisFan21]

I would trade Matusz, Tillman, and Arrieta for Cahill, Anderson, and Gio Gonzalez in a heart beat.

[Sports Guy]

I'm pretty sure I'd like Cahill more. I'm impressed more by watching him pitch than Matusz. You can mention all of the stats you want. I see a more fluid motion, better command, and yes, IMO, better overall stuff from Cahill (even though it's close!).

So, you have seen Cahill pitch against a terrible team(the Orioles) and a few innings here and there.

Wow, that's certainly a hell of a sample size.

What do you think you would have thought about him had you seen him pitch in these games?:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290929112

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290801111

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290806111

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290727102

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290627111

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290424111

You see, you want to poo poo the stats...That stats that show him to have more control, more ability to miss bats, better predictors, etc....You can say you have watched him pitch well against a bad team and some decent innings here and there...That's fine.

You can say you would prefer Cahill because of his Gb tendancies and the belief that we are better with a pitcher like that than a FB pitcher like Matusz. But ignoring the stats and saying you would include another top 20 pitching prospect coming into the season is foolish and just downright stupid.

Even if you said, I want to trade Matusz and one of those 2, you could get something a hell of a lot more needed than another starter. It would be a poor use of resources and would also be ignoring tangible evidence.

[Sports Guy]

I'm not ignoring the stats. I'm combining the stats with what I see with my own two eyes. I'm sure you could trade Matusz and Tillman and come up with Albert Pujols in your little dream world. I think Cahill is going to be better than Matusz and I don't have high hopes for Tillman at all. Downright stupid would be to keep making posts after 85,000 bad ones.

And the only person seeing this with their eyes is OldFan...That's some good company to keep there!

I am glad you have a lot of trust in what you see.

[Old#5fan]

And the only person seeing this with their eyes is OldFan...That's some good company to keep there!

I am glad you have a lot of trust in what you see.

Apparently, the opposite is true of you. And that is you don't trust what you see!:laughlol:

[Sports Guy]

Apparently, the opposite is true of you. And that is you don't trust what you see!:laughlol:

Actually, even I believed that Cahill is better than Matusz(and I agree that it is close one way or the other), the fact that you do would change my mind.

[Old#5fan]

Actually, even I believed that Cahill is better than Matusz(and I agree that it is close one way or the other), the fact that you do would change my mind.

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. That one was funny. :clap3:

[jjdman]

So, you have seen Cahill pitch against a terrible team(the Orioles) and a few innings here and there.

Wow, that's certainly a hell of a sample size.

What do you think you would have thought about him had you seen him pitch in these games?:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290929112

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290801111

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290806111

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290727102

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290627111

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290424111

You see, you want to poo poo the stats...That stats that show him to have more control, more ability to miss bats, better predictors, etc....You can say you have watched him pitch well against a bad team and some decent innings here and there...That's fine.

You can say you would prefer Cahill because of his Gb tendancies and the belief that we are better with a pitcher like that than a FB pitcher like Matusz. But ignoring the stats and saying you would include another top 20 pitching prospect coming into the season is foolish and just downright stupid.

Even if you said, I want to trade Matusz and one of those 2, you could get something a hell of a lot more needed than another starter. It would be a poor use of resources and would also be ignoring tangible evidence.

You can add this one to it. 6 innings 6 ER's

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/mlb/results/2010/boxscore294374.html&t=0

[Sports Guy]

Bump. This certainly isn't an "I told you so" as the jury will be out on this one for another year or two or three. Cahill has been ok since the thread started and continued to pile up ground ball outs. His last game he had ZERO strikeouts in 7 IP but had 17 groundball outs. I just wish that some people would acknowledge that Matusz & Tillman for Cahill isn't so crazy.

BTW, I think Matusz motion looked smoother his last time out despite poor results. I'm hopeful that he'll start to put it together. Not so hopeful with Tillman.

Why should that be acknowledged? Its a horrible trade for us on many levels.

[UMDTerrapins]

BTW, I think Matusz motion looked smoother his last time out despite poor results.

I agree his delivery smoothed out, but I take that as a bad thing. When Matusz is going well, he has a unique hitch in his delivery. It gives hitters a different look and it serves as a timing mechanism. My criticism of Matusz earlier in the year was that after the 6th inning, that hitch and the pace of his delivery seemed to go out of whack. And he got hit hard. Now it looks like his pacing is completely off from the first inning on, and the hitch is smoothed over. It seems very obvious to me that this is a cause and effect thing with his mechanics and not as much mental as others have said. But I'm also not a ML pitching coach.