BA's Jim Callis perspective on Bedard

[Frobby]

I think most GMs would say he does. Much cheaper and an ace. I absolutely love Ramirez's bat, but a lefty ace with Bedard's stuff and dominance the past 11/2 years makes him more valuable.

You first have to decide whether you are considering salary in determining a player's "value." Take salary out of the equation and I'd say Ramirez has more value because of a 4-year track record vs. a 2-year track record and some injury issues. If you include the huge salary differential then I'd rather have Bedard.

[Sports Guy]

I think most GMs would say he does. Much cheaper and an ace. I absolutely love Ramirez's bat, but a lefty ace with Bedard's stuff and dominance the past 11/2 years makes him more valuable.

100% correct....It is nothing against ARam but aces hold more value than almost any positon player.

[Sports Guy]

Weren't there rumors before the year that we might have been able to get Peavy for Tejada, or was that just made up by someone here? Can't recall, but Peavy was coming off a down year, although it was more bad luck than anything.

Bedard for ARam/Pie is fair imo, but not what the O's should be looking for as others have said.

That was a deal that was talked about on here based on rumors that Peavy was available last offseason...I can't remember who he was tied to(rumor i would assume) but he was tied to someone of similar stature and value to Miggy at that time.

I think i am remembering that correctly.

[mweb]

That was a deal that was talked about on here based on rumors that Peavy was available last offseason...I can't remember who he was tied to(rumor i would assume) but he was tied to someone of similar stature and value to Miggy at that time.

I think i am remembering that correctly.

Ok, well I recall being all for that made up trade. Imagine if we had a 1-2 punch of Peavy and Bedard! Obviously we'd still need to get younger and more talented elsewhere, but that would much more promising going forward than having Tejada.

[Sports Guy]

Ok, well I recall being all for that made up trade. Imagine if we had a 1-2 punch of Peavy and Bedard! Obviously we'd still need to get younger and more talented elsewhere, but that would much more promising going forward than having Tejada.

Yea, that would have been sweet.

If i recall correctly, some wanted more than just Peavy as well(remember, Peavy struggled some last year).

[davearm]

You first have to decide whether you are considering salary in determining a player's "value." Take salary out of the equation and I'd say Ramirez has more value because of a 4-year track record vs. a 2-year track record and some injury issues. If you include the huge salary differential then I'd rather have Bedard.

We could go round and round on the salary issue. Yes, Bedard is cheaper. But he's only signed for 2 years. It'd be easy to argue that the extra three years you have Ramirez is worth paying the premium for.

I don't buy the scarcity argument either. Yes there are very few elite starters around. But I just showed how Ramirez is in some very select company as a hitter, too. 900 OPS hitters are equally as scarce as "aces".

How many years now have the O's been lacking a 900 OPS guy for the middle of the order? Don't tell me that's not a rare and very valuable commodity.

[Moose Milligan]

Anyone else want to call this guy "Jim Cialis"?

Sorry, just had to get it off my chest.

We should get no less than the best three prospects in any organization back for Bedard. That's where it starts at.

[Fairfax Bird]

How many years now have the O's been lacking a 900 OPS guy for the middle of the order? Don't tell me that's not a rare and very valuable commodity.

Very true. Go ask most GMs what they would rather have, a .900 OPS slugger or a legit CY Young candidate at age 28 who led (or would have led) the league in Ks. I think the answer would be the latter, not the former.

[mweb]

Very true. Go ask most GMs what they would rather have, a .900 OPS slugger or a legit CY Young candidate at age 28 who led (or would have led) the league in Ks. I think the answer would be the latter, not the former.

But you have to admit the track record favors Aram. There's less than 1 year of age difference, so the age aspect isn't that important. Plus, Bedard isn't a legit CY Young candidate since he didn't finish the year.

[OrioleWay27]

You first have to decide whether you are considering salary in determining a player's "value." Take salary out of the equation and I'd say Ramirez has more value because of a 4-year track record vs. a 2-year track record and some injury issues. If you include the huge salary differential then I'd rather have Bedard.

Ramirez has been oft-injured the past two seasons. Probably his biggest downside as a player, which means he's quite valuable.

But I have to say Bedard is considerably more valuable than Ramirez, regardless of salary. To say a Bedard for A-Ram/Pie deal would be worse for the Cubs than the Orioles is laughable.

[Fairfax Bird]

But you have to admit the track record favors Aram. There's less than 1 year of age difference, so the age aspect isn't that important. Plus, Bedard isn't a legit CY Young candidate since he didn't finish the year.

Assuming a return to full health give me your top 5 cy young candidates heading into 2008.

1. Josh Beckett

2. Johan Santana

3. C.C. Sabathia

4. Erik Bedard

5. John Lackey

Clearly, assuming health, he will be a legit pre-season candidate going into 2008 based on his last two years.

[mweb]

Assuming a return to full health give me your top 5 cy young candidates heading into 2008.

1. Josh Beckett

2. Johan Santana

3. C.C. Sabathia

4. Erik Bedard

5. John Lackey

Clearly, assuming health, he will be a legit pre-season candidate going into 2008 based on his last two years.

I was talking this year. He hasn't finished a season as a CY Young candidate. Going into next year, he might be a top 5 candidate, again, his track record isn't that good, and the other guys you mention should all be above him. Escobar, Carmona, Haren, Halladay, Verlander, Kazmir, and Wang would also be guys in the mix.

[Fairfax Bird]

I was talking this year. He hasn't finished a season as a CY Young candidate. Going into next year, he might be a top 5 candidate, again, his track record isn't that good, and the other guys you mention should all be above him. Escobar, Carmona, Haren, Halladay, Verlander, Kazmir, and Wang would also be guys in the mix.

I agree all those guys are in the mix. I don't know if there is anyone on that list that is clearly any better than Bedard. If Bedard were not injured, he would definitely be a CY Young candidate. His last 11/2 years are as good as anyone in the AL.

[Sports Guy]

But you have to admit the track record favors Aram. There's less than 1 year of age difference, so the age aspect isn't that important. Plus, Bedard isn't a legit CY Young candidate since he didn't finish the year.

I have have heard some GM's and scouts question the work ethic and conditioning of ARam as well.

That has to come into play here.

[davearm]

I have have heard some GM's and scouts question the work ethic and conditioning of ARam as well.

That has to come into play here.

Name the GMs you've heard question the work ethic and conditioning of ARam.

Just fill in the blanks for us.

GM #1: _____________

GM #2: _____________

GM #3: _____________

You can't talk this nonsensical junk without backing it up.