Interesting Take by Schmuck on Teixiera

[Sports Guy]

Only if we didn't win.

And if we made the playoffs and became a winner because of the moves, we could justify a ticket price increase as the demand would be there to see winning baseball in Baltimore.

And then we could sustain a $125 million dollar payroll and keep winning.

You really just don't know what you are talking about.

BTW, your ideas won't likely bring in a winner..especially a consistent one.

[Moose Milligan]

That's how the Red Sox did it. They started by adding Manny and Pedro and then were able to buy time while their draft picks developed. But because they kept winning because of the moves they made, the demand was there so they hiked prices and the demand was still there and they were able to get to that 150+ million in payroll.

Everybody thought that Manny contract was horrible when he signed it, but it got the Red Sox into and to win a WS, twice.

The Orioles have yet to make that kind of commitment to winning.

You are aware that the Red Sox won 85 games the year before they brought Manny Ramirez in, aren't you?

Do you understand the difference between 66 wins and 85 wins?

[Hank Scorpio]

Mark Teixeira was a 3.5 WAR player this year.

Good thing we avoided that scrub.

[Frobby]

How likely is is that a 35 year old Derrek Lee bounces back to be a a 4.0-5.0 WAR player and a force to be reckoned with in the lineup?

Didn't Atkins and Tejada teach anybody anything?

* * *

It's not just about upgrading the lineup, but upgrading it in a major way. The Orioles are going to need close to 130 more runs.

You shouldn't depend on question marks to get that production as we saw how well that worked out last season.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin.

First of all, you comparing DLee to Atkins and Miggy just furthers the opinion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Secondly, we do not HAVE to have a 5 WAR player to win...I agree it is preferable but this team isn't going to contend next year..So, you make smart moves, add some long term pieces and then, NEXT OFFSEASON, you look to add that "put you over the top" piece. I am not opposed to adding that player this offseason but it needs to be a 3+ service time/contract time player.

Atkins should be left out of the conversation. That was a harebrained move and most of us recognized that the minute it happened.

Comparing Lee and Tejada is more apt. Lee is not a sure thing to bounce back. If we sign him, we are taking a calculated risk. Sometimes calculated risks work, and sometimes they don't. I'd put Lee into more or less the same category that Vlad Guerrero was in going into this season. In my mind, that's a pretty good risk to take even though there are no guarantees it works out.

[TiredofLosing20]

This is a ridiculous argument that it's blatantly obvious will never be won by either side, so let's just give it up. You could have a direct quote from Mark Teixeira himself saying he never seriously considered playing for the Orioles and he would be accused of being in some double secret handshake agreement with MacPhail about covering MacPhail's rear end.

It's futile. Give it up.

Honestly, my point in posting this wasn't really to try to change anyones mind on this. I know some folks are entrenched in their view of this negotiation. My only point was that I hadn't heard the part about Boras telling AM not to up his bid. I wasn't sure if that was new news or if I had missed it along the way. If it was new news, then for those open minded rational folks it would certainly provide some insight, if believed.

I know I should have expected it to devolve into this but I thought possibly just maybe it had been enough time. I suppose not And I am guilty of it too.

[Frobby]

Honestly, my point in posting this wasn't really to try to change anyones mind on this. I know some folks are entrenched in their view of this negotiation. My only point was that I hadn't heard the part about Boras telling AM not to up his bid. I wasn't sure if that was new news or if I had missed it along the way. If it was new news, then for those open minded rational folks it would certainly provide some insight, if believed.

I know I should have expected it to devolve into this but I thought possibly just maybe it had been enough time. I suppose not And I am guilty of it too.

Put the word "Tex" or "Teixeira" in a thread title and it is guaranteed to run 10 pages. I agree with you, Schmuck's account of what Boras said to MacPhail has not been reported before so far as I recall, and so it was definitely worth posting, though it appears nobody's mind has been changed regardless of whether Schmuck's account is accurate or not.

[DrungoHazewood]

Do you understand the difference between 66 wins and 85 wins?

The willingness to take a risk and trade the farm for a one-year rental of an expensive, premium slugger.

[allstar1579]

This is a ridiculous argument that it's blatantly obvious will never be won by either side, so let's just give it up. You could have a direct quote from Mark Teixeira himself saying he never seriously considered playing for the Orioles and he would be accused of being in some double secret handshake agreement with MacPhail about covering MacPhail's rear end.

It's futile. Give it up.

It's funny, that's pretty much what I threw out there, and it was just ignored. Some people are just going to want to assume what they want, and you can't change their mind.

[JTrea81]

Comparing Lee and Tejada is more apt. Lee is not a sure thing to bounce back. If we sign him, we are taking a calculated risk. Sometimes calculated risks work, and sometimes they don't. I'd put Lee into more or less the same category that Vlad Guerrero was in going into this season. In my mind, that's a pretty good risk to take even though there are no guarantees it works out.

Are you willing to risk hurting the development of Adam Jones and Matt Wieters and not having a bounce back season from Nick Markakis on it? Because if Lee hits like Tejada did, it's going to hurt all of those players.

The Orioles need a proven threat (or threats) in the lineup, not a question mark. Our future depends on Jones and Wieters succeeding. If they press again because there is no proven bat or bats, you could risk hurting their development.

[Going Underground]

Are you willing to risk hurting the development of Adam Jones and Matt Wieters and not having a bounce back season from Nick Markakis on it? Because if Lee hits like Tejada did, it's going to hurt all of those players.

The Orioles need a proven threat (or threats) in the lineup, not a question mark. Our future depends on Jones and Wieters succeeding. If they press again because there is no proven bat, you could risk hurting their development.

i think Lee is a fallback option if other things fail. I really think they go hard at VMart and if not Pena. Also think they might go after Willingham if Dunn signs with the Nat's.

[Sports Guy]

Are you willing to risk hurting the development of Adam Jones and Matt Wieters and not having a bounce back season from Nick Markakis on it? Because if Lee hits like Tejada did, it's going to hurt all of those players.

The Orioles need a proven threat (or threats) in the lineup, not a question mark. Our future depends on Jones and Wieters succeeding. If they press again because there is no proven bat, you could risk hurting their development.

There is no reason to believe that Lee will hit like Tejada.

[Dipper9]

Well we are making progress. This Tex thread is one of the shorter ones... :laughlol:

Getting back to Schmuck's idea - the Orioles are going to have to break the bank for a premium player at some point to show they are serious about winning. I know SG mentioned you don't have to have a $20 million dollar player on the payroll but then he mentions going after Crawford who it would likely take 7/140 to sign.

This team is going to have to pay $17-$20+ million per year to somebody if they want to win now to get one of the impact type players they need. There's nobody realistically they can trade for that's cheaper and under control for 3+ years and they don't have the players in their farm system to fill that hole.

Gonzalez and Fielder will both each command 20 million+ per season and if the Orioles want them in FA after 2011, they will have to pay for them. Adrian Beltre is the best 3B man on the market this offseason for the next several years, and they could probably get him for 4/68. Jayson Werth will likely command 5/85.

It's time to see if the Orioles are serious about winning, and it's going to have to start this offseason.

Getting back to SG's main point with you that you continue to ignore, there is more than one way to build a successful team. Just because we don't trade 5 guys for Gonzo and sign him to a contract that he will never live up to does NOT mean the Orioles are not serious about winning...

...but sadly this post and others like it will get ignored by you.

[Frobby]

Are you willing to risk hurting the development of Adam Jones and Matt Wieters and not having a bounce back season from Nick Markakis on it? Because if Lee hits like Tejada did, it's going to hurt all of those players.

The Orioles need a proven threat (or threats) in the lineup, not a question mark. Our future depends on Jones and Wieters succeeding. If they press again because there is no proven bat, you could risk hurting their development.

I don't see Lee hitting like Tejada did in any event. He's a different kind of hitter. He has more power, and he's more patient. If he doesn't bounce back, he will be akin to Kevin Millar in his first two years with us, but a better fielder. If he does bounce back, he'll be well above average offensively and defensively at 1B.

Lee would give us a solid (maybe excellent) OBP and some power, without having to give up players or picks. That's a pretty good option.

[Moose Milligan]

You are aware that the Red Sox won 85 games the year before they brought Manny Ramirez in, aren't you?

Do you understand the difference between 66 wins and 85 wins?

ahem *cough cough*

[DrungoHazewood]

You always make these huge leaps. There is no way of knowing that Jones and Wieters would have been better hitters if Albert Pujols was batting 4th for us last year. You assume they would have and run with it.

If you use evidence to try to support that argument it will fall apart, so subjective, unproveable declarations are more likely to get people on board with the idea.