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Interesting Take by Schmuck on Teixiera

TiredofLosing20

By TiredofLosing20
in Orioles Talk

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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It's ridiculous? What results (before Buck Showalter) had the plan produced? We have zero positional depth and the same holes that we had when MacPhail started. Yeah we having pitching, but pitching isn't the only thing that wins games. In fact we have the exact same problem the Cubs had under MacPhail because he's so pitching obsessed.

Because the Red Sox were offering 8/176 IIRC and he didn't want to go there.

So if the Red Sox were offering more and he had the Yankees counter, then doesn't that support the claim he wanted to be a Yankee.

You keep bringing up the same holes that were here before and after MacPhail, yet he filled CF and LF/DH (with Scott). LF could be filled with Pie, while he acquired Bell, who was viewed as the 3B/1B of the future by pretty much everyone on the board.

You can argue about the plan not working, but the plan was to bank on the progression of Pie, Reimold, Jones, Wieters, Snyder, and Bell, while assuming Markakis and Roberts wouldn't tail off.

Could he have upgraded SS, yes, but no one expected Izturis to fall off the way he did this season.

How should MacPhail have acquired more positional depth? He traded for Pie, Moore, Costanzo, Scott, Jones, Turner, Waring, Fox, Lugo, and Andino. He claimed Tatum and brought Patterson in on a minor league deal.

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TiredofLosing20 Major Leaguer

TiredofLosing20

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Not directing this just at you but it's kind of funny everybody is jumping on that first post and no one is rebutting any of this post.

Honestly, I am not responding because it is simply conjecture on your part all of which I have heard before.

I'll echo what SG said, MacPhail strung along the Orioles fanbase when if it was clear they were out of it, he had an opportunity to tell fans that they weren't in it much earlier. That wasn't handled properly at all.

I agree with others and was vocal at the time that from a PR perspective this negotiation was mishandled. He clearly raised the fanbases expectations beyond what he was capable of delivering. I am sure when he made some of his earlier statements he believed them but regardless rule one is to never build expectations above what you can achieve.

What is missing in Schmuck's statement is when was AM told. I think many of you are assuming he was told this at the beginning of the process. If true, than I agree with your (and SG) take on the this piece. It is wholly possible that AM was told this when he got down to the end.

And MacPhail's sales pitch was flawed to begin with as his plan showed that winning was not a priority. Of course Tex wouldn't be interested in what MacPhail had to sell:

"Hey Tex we're trying to rebuild the team in Baltimore but we're not going to invest the resources in the areas that we need to and we're going to cross our fingers and hope all our young talent makes it so we don't have to spend money on guys like you. It might take us awhile to be competitive even if everything works out, but it could all crash and burn. You see we want to win without trying to do what we need to do to win. Want to sign up? We'll here's our offer that's lower than the other ones and but we might improve it if you really are interested."

Yeah, I can't believe Tex would turn that opportunity down... :rolleyes:

This is simply gibberish.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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No No

So who is going to be worth the contract we will need to get them here?

Nobody, but to get them here, you will have to overpay.

We can't keep saying so and so isn't worth it in FA when the Orioles do not have a suitable alternative.

You can say they can trade for so and so, but it comes down to two questions really:

Do you want to pay in terms of prospects or $ to acquire the talent needed to win?

When do you want to win?

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CSB Jack Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

CSB Jack

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Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fool me countless times, and it's my own fault for even opening this thread. :bangwall:

Trying to get anyone that at this point still believes there was any chance to sign Teixeira at anything remotely resembling a reasonable price to change their mind is an exercise in futility. Trying to explain business strategy to others, or the need to be circumspect in what is said and not said and phrased in such a way as to give both parties some cover is equally pointless.

Time for another break. See you again when there is actually some news to talk about. At least I don't have to worry about being missed since I don't really say that much anyway.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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How should MacPhail have acquired more positional depth? He traded for Pie, Moore, Costanzo, Scott, Jones, Turner, Waring, Fox, Lugo, and Andino. He claimed Tatum and brought Patterson in on a minor league deal.

Instead of going for quantity, he should have been looking for quality. And instead of going after stopgaps, he should have been looking for LT solutions.

He had his opportunities in FA but decided to pass. And when players like Miguel Cabrera are available, you've got to go after them.

Truthfully our lack of positional depth wouldn't be a problem if we had difference making solutions at the positions. But when you are filling holes with Miguel Tejadas and Garrett Atkinss and your Brandon Snyders and Bells aren't ready to be a difference making solution for you, it tends to be a problem.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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So who is going to be worth the contract we will need to get them here?

Nobody, but to get them here, you will have to overpay.

We can't keep saying so and so isn't worth it in FA when the Orioles do not have a suitable alternative.

You can say they can trade for so and so, but it comes down to two questions really:

Do you want to pay in terms of prospects or $ to acquire the talent needed to win?

When do you want to win?

The thing that you just can't grasp is that there isn't just one way to build a team.

You feel we need a 20 million dollar player to win. You are WRONG, in every single way possible!

Now, i am not opposed to spending big on a player..I have advocated going crazy on CC this offseason. I have said I would go after Fielder and/or AGon AS A FREE AGENT but it does depend on their contract.

There is a difference between building a team in a smart way and building a team the Jtrea way...One is smart, one isn't.

Your overall, general, basic message is correct...How you want to get there is dead wrong. If you were a GM, you would be run out of town quickly and would get taken advantage of by other teams and agents.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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It's ridiculous? What results (before Buck Showalter) had the plan produced?

99.9% of us understood, when MacPhail took over, that there was going to be a period of retrenchment. The franchise is in a much better position today than it was in June 2007. If you don't see that, I can't help you.

Spending $200 mm on Mark Teixeira in the offseason of 2008-09 would have been insane.

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SilentJames Hangout Veteran Council

SilentJames

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Is Prince Fielder worth it, or how about Adrian Gonzalez?

Ryan Howard got 5/125 from the Phillies.

The Orioles are going to need to pay to play.

None of those people are among the richest in baseball. That is what we are talking about here. Howard isn't even in the top 10. Come on.

Yes the Orioles are going to have to get a high-priced FA in here sooner or later. But the Orioles do not have the ability to make someone among the top-3 in baseball.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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So if the Red Sox were offering more and he had the Yankees counter, then doesn't that support the claim he wanted to be a Yankee.

You keep bringing up the same holes that were here before and after MacPhail, yet he filled CF and LF/DH (with Scott). LF could be filled with Pie, while he acquired Bell, who was viewed as the 3B/1B of the future by pretty much everyone on the board.

You can argue about the plan not working, but the plan was to bank on the progression of Pie, Reimold, Jones, Wieters, Snyder, and Bell, while assuming Markakis and Roberts wouldn't tail off.

Could he have upgraded SS, yes, but no one expected Izturis to fall off the way he did this season.

How should MacPhail have acquired more positional depth? He traded for Pie, Moore, Costanzo, Scott, Jones, Turner, Waring, Fox, Lugo, and Andino. He claimed Tatum and brought Patterson in on a minor league deal.

Instead of going for quantity, he should have been looking for quality. And instead of going after stopgaps, he should have been looking for LT solutions.

He had his opportunities in FA but decided to pass. And when players like Miguel Cabrera are available, you've got to go after them.

Truthfully our lack of positional depth wouldn't be a problem if we had difference making solutions at the positions. But when you are filling holes with Miguel Tejadas and Garrett Atkinss and your Brandon Snyders and Bells aren't ready to be a difference making solution for you, it tends to be a problem.

As usual, way to miss 4 out of the 5 points and jump on one to contradict yourself.

You said we needed positional depth. DEPTH = players. PLAYERS = plural.

You can't say in one post we need depth, and in the next say we don't need quantity.

You don't know Cabrera was available last off season. And as I stated, YOU even thought Bell would at worst be the everyday 1B of the future, so don't be switching gears.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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None of those people are among the richest in baseball. That is what we are talking about here. Howard isn't even in the top 10. Come on.

Yes the Orioles are going to have to get a high-priced FA in here sooner or later. But the Orioles do not have the ability to make someone among the top-3 in baseball.

How is Howard not among the richest in baseball?

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