Interesting Take by Schmuck on Teixiera

[allstar1579]

We may have not been #1 on the list, but I have no doubt we were on the list.

Schmuck is just paraphrasing (poorly) how it was reported that the negotiations went down.

MacPhail backed away when he should have been persistant if he really wanted the player. The fact that he said that it "was too much to pay for one player" and later when he said they had no intent of going as high as the Yankees did to get him is enough to show the Orioles had no interest in Teixeira at the price it was going to take and weren't going to make an extra effort to land him. Only if he was wililng to take a discount, MacPhail would have signed him.

MacPhail wants premium talent to want to come to the Orioles, but he's going to have to recruit them, and he has shown no history of success in doing that. Showalter does however know how to recruit talent so hopefully we'll see a change in the passiveness of the Orioles offseason that has existed since AM has been in charge.

I bet if Showalter had been here in the 2008-2009 offseason, Tex would be an Oriole.

We weren't on the list. Mutual acquaintances. It wasn't about the money, he was going to get a good chunk of change wherever he signed, but he wanted to play with a team that could contend from year 1 through the majority of the contract. He decided the O's were too many years out from competing for his tastes. FWIW they would have been on the list if we had a few more pieces in place that offseason.

[SilentJames]

In what ranking method?

Overall career wealth, current contract, annual average salary?

total wealth. I know that when you go to annual value he is like second behind A-Rod

[Mike Devo]

People are trying to explain away the Tex situation because they don't want to say that MacPhail was incompetent and totally botched the whole thing, both with Tex and the fanbase.

Sort of like how you are completely disregarding the notion that Mark Teixiera had no intention of signing with a last place team to support your belief that he didn't come here because Andy Mcphail is a failure.

I don't know if it's true or not, I've never really had a belief one way or the other on the subject. I do think it's ridiculous to see people deny that it's conceivable that Teixiera didn't want to sign with Baltimore and instead preferred to go to a contender. And the reason Andy Mcphail didn't reveal this information could have been to maintain professionalism and out of respect for the player.

Schmuck might be misinformed or have misstated this information. But unless you need to convince yourself and others that Mcphail is incompetent and his conservative philosophy was to blame, there's no reason to consider that it might be true.

[Shopay]

IIRC, didn't AM also state that he spoke with Boras after the O's initial offer to Tex, and whenever AM started to discuss Tex, Boras switched the conversation to his other available players. If this isn't telling about Tex's intentions, then I don't know what is.

[Frobby]

I'm going to be very interested to see what happens with Tex the next couple of years, by the way. Granted, he had a lot of nagging injuries last year, but he didn't come close to being worth $22.5 mm. Basically, that was his worst season since his rookie year. I'm not really counting on him being significantly past his prime at age 31 (next season), but it happens that way sometimes. We can only hope...

[Hallas]

There's an (albeit slim) possibility that Macphail kept his mouth shut re: Teixiera as a favor to Boras. Not that I agree with any tit-for-tat agreements with snakes, but hey, it's a possibility.

[Arthur_Bryant]

There's an (albeit slim) possibility that Macphail kept his mouth shut re: Teixiera as a favor to Boras. Not that I agree with any tit-for-tat agreements with snakes, but hey, it's a possibility.

It did not have to be as a favor to Boras. Once the Orioles were out of the running, any comments by AM either way would have been interference in an ongoing process.

[Hank Scorpio]

This is a ridiculous argument that it's blatantly obvious will never be won by either side, so let's just give it up. You could have a direct quote from Mark Teixeira himself saying he never seriously considered playing for the Orioles and he would be accused of being in some double secret handshake agreement with MacPhail about covering MacPhail's rear end.

It's futile. Give it up.

[JTrea81]

This is a ridiculous argument that it's blatantly obvious will never be won by either side, so let's just give it up. You could have a direct quote from Mark Teixeira himself saying he never seriously considered playing for the Orioles and he would be accused of being in some double secret handshake agreement with MacPhail about covering MacPhail's rear end.

It's futile. Give it up.

Well we are making progress. This Tex thread is one of the shorter ones... :laughlol:

Getting back to Schmuck's idea - the Orioles are going to have to break the bank for a premium player at some point to show they are serious about winning. I know SG mentioned you don't have to have a $20 million dollar player on the payroll but then he mentions going after Crawford who it would likely take 7/140 to sign.

This team is going to have to pay $17-$20+ million per year to somebody if they want to win now to get one of the impact type players they need. There's nobody realistically they can trade for that's cheaper and under control for 3+ years and they don't have the players in their farm system to fill that hole.

Gonzalez and Fielder will both each command 20 million+ per season and if the Orioles want them in FA after 2011, they will have to pay for them. Adrian Beltre is the best 3B man on the market this offseason for the next several years, and they could probably get him for 4/68. Jayson Werth will likely command 5/85.

It's time to see if the Orioles are serious about winning, and it's going to have to start this offseason.

[Sports Guy]

Getting back to Schmuck's idea - the Orioles are going to have to break the bank for a premium player at some point to show they are serious about winning. I know SG mentioned you don't have to have a $20 million dollar player on the payroll but then he mentions going after Crawford who it would likely take 7/140 to sign.

The difference is, while I would go after CC, I don't feel WE HAVE to have one of those expensive players as you obviously do...

This team is going to have to pay $17-$20+ million per year to somebody if they want to win now

The Orioles could add DLee, Hardy and Reynolds and end up having an excellent offseason.

[JTrea81]

The difference is, while I would go after CC, I don't feel WE HAVE to have one of those expensive players as you obviously do...

The Orioles could add DLee, Hardy and Reynolds and end up having an excellent offseason.

Only if all those players bounce back and stay healthy.

Hardy only played in 101 games last season. Derrek Lee struggled through injuries and had a good August and September but couldn't hit a beach ball in the playoffs. Reynolds didn't even hit the Mendoza line last offseason. He had power, but not much else.

There's no proven player in any of those acquisitions, and each one has major question marks. Again, the Orioles have enough question marks in their lineup. They need at least one proven difference maker, and likely two.

[Sports Guy]

Only if all those players bounce back and stay healthy.

Ok, you can say that about most offseasons.

In your plan, Fielder needs to bounce back as well.

Health is always a risk.

Either way, if they add those players, they have greatly upgraded those positions, both offensively and defensively.

[JTrea81]

Ok, you can say that about most offseasons.

In your plan, Fielder needs to bounce back as well.

Health is always a risk.

Either way, if they add those players, they have greatly upgraded those positions, both offensively and defensively.

Fielder had a down season but still put up 4.1 WAR.

Lee was at 2.0 WAR, Hardy was at 2.4 and Reynolds was at 2.4

I would bet that Fielder could at least equal the value of Reynolds and Lee combined next season.

And greatly uprgrading 1B isn't a hard thing to do as the Orioles had dreadful production there. They could sign Lyle Overbay or put Luke Scott there full time and still have a big upgrade from negative WAR at that position. They need a huge upgrade at 1B.

[Crazysilver03]

Instead of going for quantity, he should have been looking for quality. And instead of going after stopgaps, he should have been looking for LT solutions.

He had his opportunities in FA but decided to pass. And when players like Miguel Cabrera are available, you've got to go after them.

Truthfully our lack of positional depth wouldn't be a problem if we had difference making solutions at the positions. But when you are filling holes with Miguel Tejadas and Garrett Atkinss and your Brandon Snyders and Bells aren't ready to be a difference making solution for you, it tends to be a problem.

As usual, way to miss 4 out of the 5 points and jump on one to contradict yourself.

You said we needed positional depth. DEPTH = players. PLAYERS = plural.

You can't say in one post we need depth, and in the next say we don't need quantity.

You don't know Cabrera was available last off season. And as I stated, YOU even thought Bell would at worst be the everyday 1B of the future, so don't be switching gears.

Still waiting on a response?

[Sports Guy]

Fielder had a down season but still put up 4.1 WAR.

Lee was at 2.0 WAR, Hardy was at 2.4 and Reynolds was at 2.4

I would bet that Fielder could at least equal the value of Reynolds and Lee combined next season.

And greatly uprgrading 1B isn't a hard thing to do as the Orioles had dreadful production there. They could sign Lyle Overbay or put Luke Scott there full time and still have a big upgrade from negative WAR at that position. They need a huge upgrade at 1B.

You are hilarious...You really believe we have to have one of Fielder or AGon to contend and you will ignore all evidence and intelligence that says otherwise..Its truly mindboggling.

As I said, you would get embarrassed by the worst GMs in the league and the shadiest of agents.