Geoff Baker echos my thoughts on FA and the standard cliches (excuses) for a non-contending team

[allstar1579]

He still wants Jamie Moyer, had him penciled into the #5 slot in the O's rotation after a year off at the age of 49.

Hey, I'd love to bring in Moyer too...as pitching coach. Could you imagine him teaching Bundy his circle change?

[erb8472]

He still wants Jamie Moyer, had him penciled into the #5 slot in the O's rotation after a year off at the age of 49.

He's got a better chance of making Tony's 35+ team than playing on the Orioles.

[Sports Guy]

He's got a better chance of making Tony's 35+ team than playing on the Orioles.

That's actually a great idea.

Tony said he needs pitchers too!

[crawjo]

7/175

If he wants more I go hard after Joey Votto.

Okay, say you get Fielder for 7/175. How then are you going to address the pitching, which was by far the worst in the league last year? Without a dramatic improvement in pitching the Orioles will not be able to get to .500, much less contend.

[Sports Guy]

Okay, say you get Fielder for 7/175. How then are you going to address the pitching, which was by far the worst in the league last year? Without a dramatic improvement in pitching the Orioles will not be able to get to .500, much less contend.

He already said he would sign Wilson and trade for Floyd.

He believes the payroll will be ok in the area of 120-130 million.

[crawjo]

I'm bashing people who have a defeatist attitude and don't demand better.

These apathetic people and pity-parties are really starting to tick me off...

This is the problem. We aren't apathetic and we aren't holding a pity party. Or rather, I'm not. What I want the Orioles to do is address the farm system, stockpile draft picks, and build through youth. MacPhail tried this route and it was unsuccessful. We have to try again. It's the best chance we have at competing. If we hit the jackpot on a couple of draft picks (Machado? Bundy?) we will then have the core players around which to build a legitimate contender. Until we have the core, though, or at least a reasonable part of a core, we won't be able to win through free agency.

[crawjo]

He already said he would sign Wilson and trade for Floyd.

He believes the payroll will be ok in the area of 120-130 million.

How much would he be willing to pay Wilson, then, and what would he willingly give up for Floyd? I want to see what the cost is before even addressing whether adding two pitchers is going to make our pitching (let alone defense) competitive enough.

Oh, that's another question, Trea. Here, let me organize them for you:

1. Okay, you've got Fielder for 7/175. Who do you target for the pitching side and how much are you willing to pay/give up in trade in order to get them?

2. Since you now have Prince Fielder at first base, where does Mark Reynolds play? Third? How do you improve the defense, which was also among the worst in the league last year?

[Florida_Osfan]

I'm bashing people who have a defeatist attitude and don't demand better.

These apathetic people and pity-parties are really starting to tick me off...

Who are "these apathetic" people? You conveniently ignored my last post. Not terribly surprised. You are annoyed with people that you feel don't agree with you. Ever wonder if people are ticked off with your mantra as well?

[erb8472]

This is the problem. We aren't apathetic and we aren't holding a pity party. Or rather, I'm not. What I want the Orioles to do is address the farm system, stockpile draft picks, and build through youth. MacPhail tried this route and it was unsuccessful. We have to try again. It's the best chance we have at competing. If we hit the jackpot on a couple of draft picks (Machado? Bundy?) we will then have the core players around which to build a legitimate contender. Until we have the core, though, or at least a reasonable part of a core, we won't be able to win through free agency.

Nor should we try to. We will have to overpay big time to bring in quality free agents without first developing our core.

[crawjo]

Yeah, even the 1990s free agency binge that the Orioles went on (which was made much easier by the fact that, at that time, Baltimore was considered to be a good destination for a free agent) came after the club had already assembled a decent core, anchored by guys like Brady Anderson, Cal Ripken, Mike Mussina, Chris Hoiles, etc.

[Spoonless]

He already said he would sign Wilson and trade for Floyd.

He believes the payroll will be ok in the area of 120-130 million.

While I think that eventually the Orioles can be spending 120-130M/yr on payroll, it certainly is awfully silly to be expecting a ~38-49% increase in payroll to happen over the course of a single offseason.

[Sports Guy]

While I think that eventually the Orioles can be spending 120-130M/yr on payroll, it certainly is awfully silly to be expecting a ~38-49% increase in payroll to happen over the course of a single offseason.

Exactly...I also feel that they could afford that payroll...just not yet.

[crawjo]

To be clear, I'm not theoretically opposed to the Orioles signing Fielder, but I definitely don't want them to overpay for him and then be stuck with a bad contract. By himself he can't make us a .500 team, much less contenders, so it's not a good idea to put all our eggs in that particular basket.

[JTrea81]

How much would he be willing to pay Wilson, then, and what would he willingly give up for Floyd? I want to see what the cost is before even addressing whether adding two pitchers is going to make our pitching (let alone defense) competitive enough.

Oh, that's another question, Trea. Here, let me organize them for you:

1. Okay, you've got Fielder for 7/175. Who do you target for the pitching side and how much are you willing to pay/give up in trade in order to get them?

2. Since you now have Prince Fielder at first base, where does Mark Reynolds play? Third? How do you improve the defense, which was also among the worst in the league last year?

1. Wilson may be a target for 5/85, but if not, I'd go after Buerhle for 3/40, and if not him, then a trade for Gio Gonzalez using Matusz and Schoop as the centerpieces. For Floyd I'd love to trade them Markakis, but if not then Nolan Reimold plus a prospect.

2. Reynolds plays 3B. I send him to winter ball and tell him to work on his fielding this offseason. He was never this terrible before and I think it has to do with the fact he was focusing on his swing so much. His bat is incredibly valuable at 3B but not so much at 1B where he's not that great defensively either.

[JTrea81]

Who are "these apathetic" people? You conveniently ignored my last post. Not terribly surprised. You are annoyed with people that you feel don't agree with you. Ever wonder if people are ticked off with your mantra as well?

It's people who keep saying so and so won't come here at the very start of free agency.

Why the hell not if you offer the correct money and put on a good sales pitch?

Yet I keep seeing articles that feed this mentality.

We need to see more like Baker's and more like Amber's actually:

I would have loved to hear Duquette map out a plan that involves more aggressive free agent pursuits now. The Orioles are better than they were four years ago as far as core players. I don't agree with Duquette that now is not the time for big-name free agents. It's eerily similar to MacPhail's "build the arms now, buy the bats later" mantra. The arms never were built. I don't believe the O's can rely completely on their farm system for pitching talent.

I've said all along, I know it's not easy to get free agents to come to Baltimore, but money talks and with such a solid group of position players, the club could be propelled forward by leaps and bounds by signing one free agent who's a top-of-the-rotation starter.

That's the opinions I want to see. People demanding more and expecting more because we do have good pieces in place. This team has a foundation. It isn't all gloom and doom as people like SG think that we are light years from contending. We aren't as long as an investment is made.

This small market crap is just bull. More power to Duquette if he can pull it off, but it doesn't need to be that way.

Put a winning product on the field, increase demand and then hike ticket prices when you have the demand to pay for the increased payroll because people will pay to see a winning team.

That's what Duquette did in Boston after the Red Sox traded for Pedro and signed Manny. He hiked prices and despite the complaints from fans, the park is sold out every game.

But yet I don't see anybody clamoring for that. Instead they want to build the team "the right way" because they don't believe the Orioles are worthy enough to have top talent actually want to sign with this team. Instead we'll have to grow everything and not to mention everybody will leave us when they get the chance so we have to keep them down in the minors as long as possible just so we can get that extra year of control, regardless of them helping the ML team because their ticket is punched for Boston or NY the minute that 6th year is up. We've got to force them to serve their sentence in an Orioles uniform for as long as we can...

That's such a defeatist attitude to take IMO. People need to demand more from and take more pride in this team.

We are Orioles fans and we deserve to see this franchise do everything they can to do to win now and end this losing streak because if they didn't have us, they would not exist.

That's the attitude I want to see.

Don't let the Orioles take the power and just put any product out there that they feel inclined to do.