Possible Tejada scenario?

[Fan4Life]

Show me the money! That's what would get me to play. Tejada was thought to like the west coast - The O's came off their 6th consecutive losing seasonm didn't have much talent but they came with the highest bid -therefore Tejada was an Oriole. Show them the $ and they will come. Salaries are not decreasing and with the increased revenue throughout baseball I wouldn't be surprised to see another A-Rod type contract in the future.

just not in Baltimore...

[goodburger34]

Geoff Jenkins.

Your team, my team and everyone else's team will depend on DCab and Loewen.

I would like to see one of Burrell, or Jenkins, or Jose Guillen (depending on how bad he is hurt) on the orioles next year.

Just a question, was the Enseberg, Everett, and Oswalt deal something that was actually on the table and the Os said no, or was it just speculation?

[clapdiddy]

Show me the money! That's what would get me to play. Tejada was thought to like the west coast - The O's came off their 6th consecutive losing season, didn't have much talent but they had the highest bid -therefore Tejada was an Oriole. Show them the $ and they will come. Salaries are not decreasing and with the increased revenue throughout baseball I wouldn't be surprised to see another A-Rod type contract in the future.

I agree with you that it takes the money, but we've got no indication that Angelos is willing to overpay any more. I know he says he's going to increase the payroll, but this is the same guy who said we would compete in 2005 and 2006.

[Fan4Life]

I agree with you that it takes the money, but we've got no indication that Angelos is willing to overpay any more. I know he says he's going to increase the payroll, but this is the same guy who said we would compete in 2005 and 2006.

If this franchise chooses not to TRY and upgrade this team, then we need to revolt.

[srock]

OK...I'm not trying to poop on anyone's lawn here, but I think a little bit of realism needs to be added to this discussion.

If you were a free agent, would you want to play for the Orioles? I don't care if you are a high end free agent or a low end free agent...what could possibly make you want to play for this organization?

We need to make deals for as many young, almost ready for MLB players as we can...just like the Marlins have done. We need to trade off ANY significant piece of this team that could bring us those types of players. We need to get them in bunches so that we've got backup plans in place in case some of them don't pan out. We need to rebuild from the ground up.

Imagine what we could get for Bedard, Roberts, Tejada, and Hernandez. I suppose we could get quite a bit of young talent back for those four players.

The reason I would want young players is because they have NO CHOICE as to where they will play their first years in the league. They will have to be Orioles and perhaps we could build up a youthful core that would allow us to go out and get the one or two players we'd need to put us over the top.

If the team doesn't have the ability to sign top-notch free agents, then the only choice we have is to rebuild around a core of young pitching and good defense. Going with retreads and quick fixes gets us no where due to the lack of depth in the organization. The front office needs to take a year or two to make this place attractive to free agents again. Right now, we have to look like one of the worst places in baseball to play.

OK...I've gotten out my pooper scooper and removed the load from your lawn.

Sorry to jump in late but this discussion gives me a nagging question.

If Tejada is traded is it even possible to bring back enough to field a more competitive team next season?

I doubt it.

For this reason, if Tejada is traded for 2-4 guys where 2-3 of them are still considered 'prospects' then the Orioles are looking at 2-3 seasons before these guys develop and they can consider competing. As Clapdiddy points out guys like Bedard and Roberts will need to be traded else they will be signing elsewhere when they become free agents.

Essentially the new core of the Orioles would be built upon Loewen, Cabrera, Ray, and Markakis with the hope that enough talent from the trades pans out to make a real team.

This seems the most logical course of action, although I would still love to see two free agents added to Tejada this offseason instead of trading Tejada. When this doesn't happen, then the trading begins.

[geschinger]

For this reason, if Tejada is traded for 2-4 guys where 2-3 of them are still considered 'prospects' then the Orioles are looking at 2-3 seasons before these guys develop and they can consider competing.

Why? I'd agree if we were talking about prospects who are not MLB ready. There is no reason to think it'd take 2-3 years before we got good enough production to compete. Hell, just look at what the Marlins did this year.

[geschinger]

If this franchise chooses not to TRY and upgrade this team, then we need to revolt.

Just don't define TRY as drastically overpaying.

[Fan4Life]

Why? I'd agree if we were talking about prospects who are not MLB ready. There is no reason to think it'd take 2-3 years before we got good enough production to compete. Hell, just look at what the Marlins did this year.

The Marlins pitching was as much a contributing factor to their success as anything else... if our pitchers could pitch to their team ERA of 4.37, we'd be a contender too.

[geschinger]

The Marlins pitching was as much a contributing factor to their success as anything else... if our pitchers could pitch to their team ERA of 4.37, we'd be a contender too.

All the more reason to pull the trigger if you can add someone like Santana to the rotation and get younger / better defensively. A rotation consisting of DCab, Santana, Bedard, Loewen, and Penn has enough talent to pitch just as well as the Marlins kids pitched. It's unlikely they'll all develop to that level next year but I'd like their chances in 2008 and beyond.

[Fan4Life]

All the more reason to pull the trigger if you can add someone like Santana to the rotation and get younger / better defensively. A rotation consisting of DCab, Santana, Bedard, Loewen, and Penn has enough talent to pitch just as well as the Marlins kids pitched. It's unlikely they'll all develop to that level next year but I'd like their chances in 2008 and beyond.

Well I would think that our inflated team ERA came more from Chen, Ortiz, Lopez and the bullpen. Bringing in Santana would only help that #5 spot and I think we can improve that in any number of ways without giving up Tejada.

[nadecir]

If this franchise chooses not to TRY and upgrade this team, then we need to revolt.

Oriole fans have already revolted. Just look at our attendance figures. And Angelos doesn't seem to care.

If the KC Royals can draw 1.4 million fans this year, then I believe the lower limit for Oriole attendance is about 2 million. This lower limit on attendance can be achieved no matter how bad the Orioes play. We've got at least 300,000 Yankee and Red Sox fans coming to Camden every year.

We can't make moves just to try to appease the fans every year. This team needs to rebuilt by moving our declining veterans for top level prospects. If we build for 2-3 years down the road, hopefully Penn and Loewen will emerge as good major league pitchers and we can compete then.

For the Orioles to gain 25 games in their win-loss record and overtake the Yankees, Blue Jays and Red Sox in the course of one season is a pipedream. With the Blue Jays having money to spend this offseason again, we've got too many big-spending teams in this division to expect such a big turnaround in the course of one season.

[geschinger]

Well I would think that our inflated team ERA came more from Chen, Ortiz, Lopez and the bullpen. Bringing in Santana would only help that #5 spot and I think we can improve that in any number of ways without giving up Tejada.

I don't think Santana would be a #5, but to your point, sure, it'd be easy to add someone to the rotation who would improve what we got from Chen, Ortiz, Lopez etc... But you'd be hard pressed to get add someone w/top of the rotation stuff like you'd get from a Santana w/o trading a Tejada.

Again, they probably won't all develop in time to be a legitimate contender in 2007 but I don't think it's outlandish to say that if Bedard, DCab, Loewen, Santana and Penn come anywhere close to reaching their ceilings we'd be looking at one of, if not the best rotations in baseball. Even if they don't I still think we'd be looking at good rotation as early as 2007.

[NoVaO]

1st- Kotchman

2nd- Roberts

SS- Aybar

3rd- Ensberg

LF- Mora

CF- CPat

RF- Markakis

C- Hernandez

DH- Burrell

Valentin- Backup C

Cruz Jr- Gets some time in CF versus tough lefties..Late inning replacement for MelMo

Millar- if he accepts back up role

Bedard

Lackey/Santana

Loewen

DCab

Penn/Rlo

Ray

Britton

Rhodes

Rlo/Penn

3 relievers acquired in trade or free agency..power arms

This team may or may not compete but like every other team that any of us will show, it will rely on DCab and Loewen and to an extent, Penn.

The defense would be great....Build a dominant bullpen...Make the games 6 innings. Good depth....High OBP...Rotation goes either way depending on DCab and Loewen but we have 2 top of the rotation guys and 2-3 other possible top of the rotation guys.

Alot more speed as well...3 potential 40+ SB guys.

The offense probably scores in the 825-850 run neighborhood. Pitchign staff has the potential to be a staff with a 4ish ERA.

Improved defense makes the pitching better.

Now, this team may not contend and probably needs another bat but if Markakis keeps developing and Kotchman gives us Gonzalez-like production next year, we would have plenty of offense to compete.

Good chance we could lead the league in doubles as well.

I think this team is as likely to compete as a team with Tejada, Lee, Lilly and Meche...It is just going about it in another way and focusing on things like the BP, defense and depth.

And we wouldn't be bogged down by long term deals for players who likely won't live up to them.

Very similar to what I want to see done and even with Tejada, I would be thrilled with it.

I would like to see us sign Padilla and would go 3 years $24 million to do it. Start Penn out in the bullpen or in AAA and let Rodrigo go. Or perhaps sign a couple guys like Kim, Wolf, and Wright and have an open competition with the loser relegated to the bullpen.

I'm not sure Rhodes is much of an option anymore...he injured his shoulder/elbow at the end of last year and missed the rest of the season.

I would love to trade for a guy like Valverde, but his value isn't nearly as low as it once was. Bradford is an intriguing guy even though his K rate isn't great...he doesn't walk anybody and he doesn't give up home runs. If we are looking for a left hander, JC Romero is kinda intriguing. Sign him to a minor league deal with certain incentives. Even though his numbers look horrible, he was still very good against lefties (.608 OPS) and he looks like he got extremely unlucky last year (56% LOB, close to a .350 BABIP, etc.).

However, I think Burres, Birkins, Olson, Penn, and Hoey are all capable of being solid relievers. I don't think Liz is ready yet.

Geoff Jenkins.

Your team, my team and everyone else's team will depend on DCab and Loewen.

I would prefer signing Huff or Dellucci before going out and trading for Jenkins.

[Fan4Life]

Oriole fans have already revolted. Just look at our attendance figures. And Angelos doesn't seem to care.

If the KC Royals can draw 1.4 million fans this year, then I believe the lower limit for Oriole attendance is about 2 million. This lower limit on attendance can be achieved no matter how bad the Orioes play. We've got at least 300,000 Yankee and Red Sox fans coming to Camden every year.

We can't make moves just to try to appease the fans every year. This team needs to rebuilt by moving our declining veterans for top level prospects. If we build for 2-3 years down the road, hopefully Penn and Loewen will emerge as good major league pitchers and we can compete then.

For the Orioles to gain 25 games in their win-loss record and overtake the Yankees, Blue Jays and Red Sox in the course of one season is a pipedream. With the Blue Jays having money to spend this offseason again, we've got too many big-spending teams in this division to expect such a big turnaround in the course of one season.

Total Revenue to PA from ticket sales has increased even with the erosion of attendance over the years. In 1997 when we were selling out.. average tickets were about $11, now they are $22... and attendance hasn't been cut in half.. just yet...

[NoVaO]

Well I would think that our inflated team ERA came more from Chen, Ortiz, Lopez and the bullpen. Bringing in Santana would only help that #5 spot and I think we can improve that in any number of ways without giving up Tejada.

You are bringing in a 23 year old starter who has top of the rotation stuff and who has already established himself as a number 2/3 starter and who will be under your control for 5 more years at a very cheap price.