Is A Deal For Billy Butler Still Possible?

[Stotle]

Good stuff thanks. I had heard Gausman didn't have the velocity. It's cool to hear it's on par and maybe better than Bundy's. Seems people are quick to call Bundy untouchable, but in the same breath willing to give up Gausman as a PTBNL in a trade for a bat. It's nice that the O's may have a 1A and a 1B. That's what wins championships.

Gausman was up to 96 in the 6th inning of a game I saw down in Baton Rouge in the spring -- hit 98 in the second inning down in the zone. The arm is legit and it's a lively ball on a tough angle. Really good when everything's clicking. Potential monster.

[Stotle]

Once I saw you were around, I looked for your posts and did see that one you referenced. I am a Gausman fan so that makes me happy. He looks like they look.

Perfectly put.

[skanar]

Should slow base running be a factor in extending Wieters? He barely makes it to 1b before the OF relays the ball back to the IF.

Matt Wieters is a bad baserunner (-4.1 BSR/600 PA), but he is about 25% better than Billy Butler (-5.4). The upgrade, in terms of speed, from Butler to Wieters, is about the same as the upgrade from Nick Markakis (+0.7 BSR/600) to Adam Jones (+2.1).

Also, to JohnnyK27, what would you project in terms of offensive production from a Betemit/Valencia or Betemit/Pearce platoon? Let's say Betemit gets 400 PA, of which 350 are vs RHP and 50 are vs LHP, and Valencia gets 150 PA, of which 125 are vs LHP and 25 are vs RHP. What OPS would you expect from those 550 PA? What OPS would you expect if Billy Butler got all 550 PA?

[theobird]

Just curious, but what is The baserunning stat for Miguel Cabrerra? I still think I would take the triple crown winner on my team. Just sayin'.

[Can_of_corn]

Just curious, but what is The baserunning stat for Miguel Cabrerra? I still think I would take the triple crown winner on my team. Just sayin'.

Just think, if Cabrerra ran the bases like Trout, not only would he have won the MVP, he would have deserved it.

[theobird]

Just think, if Cabrerra ran the bases like Trout, not only would he have won the MVP, he would have deserved it.

I keep reading through my post looking for my reference to the MVP. I still can't find it.:laughlol:

[Can_of_corn]

I keep reading through my post looking for my reference to the MVP. I still can't find it.:laughlol:

If he was a superior baserunner that would have have made him a more valuable player.

Pretty simple I thought.

In other words there is value in speed and baserunning. Not a lot of value in most cases but noticeable at the extreme ends of the curve.

[theobird]

The MVP is a beauty contest. You can't dispute the triple crown.

[Can_of_corn]

The MVP is a beauty contest. You can't dispute the triple crown.

Considering that I completely ignore RBI and count BA below OBP, wOBA and OPS I can discount the triple crown.

[theobird]

Considering that I completely ignore RBI and count BA below OBP, wOBA and OPS I can discount the triple crown.

Okee dokee, good luck to you.

[skanar]

Just curious, but what is The baserunning stat for Miguel Cabrerra? I still think I would take the triple crown winner on my team. Just sayin'.

Cabrera has a -1.6 BSR/600 PA - about the same as Edgar Martinez, and much, much better than either Wieters or Butler. A close match on the Orioles is Chris Davis, who has a -1.7 BSR/600 PA.

Also, the point is not that Butler's lack of speed makes him a bad player or negates his offensive contributions. It doesn't. What it does is show that he doesn't provide as much value as any other MLB hitter with similar offensive numbers. And IMO, while his bat is very good, it isn't great. As a result of both of those, his offensive production is replaceable, and not worth the substantial cost that it (likely) would have taken to bring him to the O's.

[section18]

Thanks for commenting on here Stotle. I'm curious how other teams value Matusz, Britton and Arrieta.

I would think Matusz would have the number 1 value due to his late season success out of the pen. Britton I would think would be rated #2 and Arrieta #3. I don't think all three will end up in the pen although a number of people on OH seem to think thats Arrieta's best spot as he seems to be unable to get past the 5 inning in most games. Britton is the hardest to figure out. Sometimes he appears almost unhittable and other times they hit everything he throws.

[Stotle]

Thanks for commenting on here Stotle. I'm curious how other teams value Matusz, Britton and Arrieta.

I would think Matusz would have the number 1 value due to his late season success out of the pen. Britton I would think would be rated #2 and Arrieta #3. I don't think all three will end up in the pen although a number of people on OH seem to think thats Arrieta's best spot as he seems to be unable to get past the 5 inning in most games. Britton is the hardest to figure out. Sometimes he appears almost unhittable and other times they hit everything he throws.

Nothing inside, but it should come as no surprise to anyone to hear teams interested in those arms, but at prices generally lower than Baltimore wants in order to part with them. Britton, in my opinion, will need to show success on the field before getting front-end trade value. Just too many concerns as to his potential effectiveness as a prospect that have not been alleviated. Needs to show it (and that he's healthy).

[theobird]

Considering that I completely ignore RBI and count BA below OBP, wOBA and OPS I can discount the triple crown.

Cabrerra's OBP was .393. He led both leagues in slugging % at .606. He led both leagues in OPS with .999. And he won the triple Crown.

[Can_of_corn]

Cabrerra's OBP was .393. He led both leagues in slugging % at .606. He led both leagues in OPS with .999. And he won the triple Crown.

I am aware that he had a fabulous season with the bat in his hands.

I still think Trout was more valuable when you factor in baserunning and defense.