Per Gammons: "Orioles culture... back to reality."

[Tx Oriole]

We've already got two posts giving PA the benefit of the doubt. This is like Stockholm Syndrome.

MSK

What is wrong with giving someone the benefit of doubt? Even PA. Since we don't

know what went down why can't you just wait to see? Sele in the past the O's

offered four year deal. The O's pulled back. He went to another team and pitched

well for two years. His arm was kaput for years three and four. So if it was PA

that Meddled then he was right. You are so fired up along with some others to

hang PA when something doesn't work out. Innocent until proven guilty is the way I believe. If things proves out that Angelos didn't have anything to do with

Balfour will you admit you were wrong? I highly doubt it.

[BradyBunch]

Pot, meet kettle.

Kettle, meet pot.

Happy Holidays from the Official Peter Angelos Does Nothing Wrong Fan Crew a.k.a. PASS (Peter Angelos Stockholm Syndrome).

MSK

There is plenty PA does wrong but this isn't one of them. Raising ticket prices? Big problem with.

Btw, I actually think the O's are up for sale (privately) and think the O's hard budget is the first step in the process of a sale within the next 2 or 3 years.

[paulcoates]

Frobby I respect you because you are usually a calm eye of reason in the tempestuous storm of Orioles fandom. But in this case it seems like you're not seeing the core situation here.

It might not be much more than commentary, but it's commentary based on a long, storied history of Peter Angelos using medical evidence to shut down deals he doesn't like. With that said, if folks are going on the record decrying Angelos' behavior after the fact and the current situation fits the previous set of behavior, why give Angelos the benefit of the doubt that he didn't do the same thing again?

That's what many of us are saying.

MSK

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 50 times, shame on Pete

[MemorialStadKid]

What is wrong with giving someone the benefit of doubt? Even PA. Since we don't

know what went down why can't you just wait to see? Sele in the past the O's

offered four year deal. The O's pulled back. He went to another team and pitched

well for two years. His arm was kaput for years three and four. So if it was PA

that Meddled then he was right. You are so fired up along with some others to

hang PA when something doesn't work out. Innocent until proven guilty is the way I believe. If things proves out that Angelos didn't have anything to do with

Balfour will you admit you were wrong? I highly doubt it.

Okay.

1) Innocent until proven guilty is a very good policy if there hasn't been a precedent of negative behavior. How many folks would leave their kid with a child molester who has already served one jail term for molestation? Angelos MIGHT NOT have had anything to do with this particular situation (although I STRONGLY believe this has his fingerprints all over it) but his behavior - that has been corroborated by past colleagues and co-workers who HAVE NO REASON TO LIE - is consistent with the Balfour contract debacle.

2) IF it is proven that Angelos had nothing to do with this, I would be happy to say I was wrong. I've apologized here before and I would be happy to do it again.

3) Will you do the same if you're proven to be wrong?

MSK

[Yardball85]

I don't view the offseason as pathetic. Last time I checked, it's still going on. There is still time to add a staring pitcher to replace Feldman whom Houston overpaid for. I'm personally ok with Lough replacing McLouth on the Orioles roster. I would like them to add a starting pitcher and a nother impact bat at DH.

To answer your questions, I don't blame PA for the off season. While I'm sure he has input, I believe that the team is run primarily by Duquette. As such, I prefer to give him the full off seaosn before I'll judge him or to say whether or not it's been a good off season for me.

Thanks for asking.

You're welcome. Thanks for responding. Yes, there is still time in the off-season, but watching the Balfour fiasco unfold and bats such as Hart and LoMo go elsewhere for relatively cheap, I have little faith that this off-season will turn around.

I want to believe that it is DD, and not PA, who is responsible for the decisions of this team. If that is the case, then some of the sting of the off-season would be mitigated.

[paulcoates]

Chris Davis, Chris Tillman, Adam Jones, Matt Wieters, overpaid Nick Markakis, Manny Machado, JJ Hardy, O'Day, Jim Johnson (before trade) and so on.. players traded for or drafted by O's and a solid FA signing. Hmm, sure the O's have done everything you asked for.

And where has this gotten us?

And you are right, he hasn't done everything necessary, such as signing premium free agents to push the Orioles over the top

[MrOrange82]

Okay.

1) Innocent until proven guilty is a very good policy if there hasn't been a precedent of negative behavior. How many folks would leave their kid with a child molester who has already served one jail term for molestation? Angelos MIGHT NOT have had anything to do with this particular situation (although I STRONGLY believe this has his fingerprints all over it) but his behavior - that has been corroborated by past colleagues and co-workers who HAVE NO REASON TO LIE - is consistent with the Balfour contract debacle.

2) IF it is proven that Angelos had nothing to do with this, I would be happy to say I was wrong. I've apologized here before and I would be happy to do it again.

3) Will you do the same if you're proven to be wrong?

MSK

Dude...it's baseball, and the distasteful qualities of big business. Analogizing to child molestation is so far out of bounds and unnecessary that I'm honestly shocked you'd even think to go there. And I do mean you, specifically, as you've already gone through the cycle of bombastic-followed-by-apology more than once.

[paulcoates]

There is plenty PA does wrong but this isn't one of them. Raising ticket prices? Big problem with.

Btw, I actually think the O's are up for sale (privately) and think the O's hard budget is the first step in the process of a sale within the next 2 or 3 years.

Why would they be for sale? If a business is making money hand over fist, why sell?

[paulcoates]

What is wrong with giving someone the benefit of doubt? Even PA. Since we don't

know what went down why can't you just wait to see? Sele in the past the O's

offered four year deal. The O's pulled back. He went to another team and pitched

well for two years. His arm was kaput for years three and four. So if it was PA

that Meddled then he was right. You are so fired up along with some others to

hang PA when something doesn't work out. Innocent until proven guilty is the way I believe. If things proves out that Angelos didn't have anything to do with

Balfour will you admit you were wrong? I highly doubt it.

What is the one common denominator through these years? Pete

He is the one who puts these people in these positions of authority.

Normally, when a company loses for 15 years, it doesn't take long for the shareholders to boot him out of his position. But, since he is in a virtually foolproof business with no one to report to.

[BradyBunch]

And where has this gotten us?

And you are right, he hasn't done everything necessary, such as signing premium free agents to push the Orioles over the top

Pretty sure 2012 playoffs and missing the playoffs last year by just a few games which came down to bad luck and blown saves. 2 winning season back to back that hadn't happen since 1996-1997.

Who are you gonna sign? Seriously name me one premium agent the O's can sign? There isn't one. We have 3 spots to fill with about $35m to spend. So we weren't gonna sign Ellsbury (who Jones plays his position), weren't gonna sign Cano or Shoo. So.. who oh wise one were we gonna sign with rest of the weak market?

[MemorialStadKid]

Dude...it's baseball, and the distasteful qualities of big business. Analogizing to child molestation is so far out of bounds and unnecessary that I'm honestly shocked you'd even think to go there. And I do mean you, specifically, as you've already gone through the cycle of bombastic-followed-by-apology more than once.

I wasn't making light of molestation. I was using it as an example of giving the benefit of the doubt.

If you were offended by that I do apologize considering I've worked with victims of molestation in my past as a history instructor in public school and I would never attempt to make it into a punchline.

I had parents treat me as if I would molest their child because other teachers had been accused of that crime. It came to me because I've been thinking of my education background because the nostalgia of the holiday season.

My fault.

MSK

[BradyBunch]

Why would they be for sale? If a business is making money hand over fist, why sell?

It's called taxes. Estate taxes are the main reason why teams are sold when an owner gets older. Angelos family isn't wealthy enough to cover the taxes for the O's.

[paulcoates]

Pretty sure 2012 playoffs and missing the playoffs last year by just a few games which came down to bad luck and blown saves. 2 winning season back to back that hadn't happen since 1996-1997.

Who are you gonna sign? Seriously name me one premium agent the O's can sign? There isn't one. We have 3 spots to fill with about $35m to spend. So we weren't gonna sign Ellsbury (who Jones plays his position), weren't gonna sign Cano or Shoo. So.. who oh wise one were we gonna sign with rest of the weak market?

Well, I would say the Orioles let the majority of them sign elsewhere while they sat on their fat stacks of cash. But ok, Garza or Jimenez would helps his team. There was a good number of free agents position players who would have helped, butt hey were "too expensive"

[Dark Helmet]

Peter Angelos hasn't earned a benefit of a doubt. People that want hard evidence from the current regime that Angelos nixed the Balfour deal? Good luck with that. DD was all but blacklisted from baseball until the Orioles came calling. He isn't saying anything. I don't know how anyone can keep defending this owner.

[Austin]

Pot, meet kettle.

Kettle, meet pot.

Happy Holidays from the Official Peter Angelos Does Nothing Wrong Fan Crew a.k.a. PASS (Peter Angelos Stockholm Syndrome).

MSK

I like how you had to make your yearly apology not one week ago and you're already name calling anyone who disagrees with you. I'd like more information before I declare Angelos the anti-Christ. Believable as it may be, all we have right now is conjecture... and no, that doesn't make me an apologist or a shill or a family member of PA or whatever new strawman you have loaded up. It's a joke if you think you are the voice of reason vs. Frobby.