Gausman still could be the fifth starter right away

[Can_of_corn]

Bullpens are full of guys who can throw 95+.

I remember growing up if a pitcher had a 90-91 fastball he was deemed a pretty hard thrower. 94-95, even out of the pen, was really bringing it.

[weams]

You know as well as I did they had and used steroids. They just were not as polished in their use.

I believe that prior to the 90's the survey test that has issued in our era of testing would have shown lest than 5 percent potential positives. Now Cocaine? Lsd? Weed? For certain.

[Redskins Rick]

I remember growing up if a pitcher had a 90-91 fastball he was deemed a pretty hard thrower. 94-95, even out of the pen, was really bringing it.

Not sure when you grew up, but pitchers have long been able to hit 100 since the 1920s.

Walter Johnson, Bob Fellar, Gibson, Randy Johnson, Seaver, Ryan, and many others could.

The difference than, was a handful of guys in the leagues could, now each team has 1-2 guys at least that can bring the hard heat.

[Can_of_corn]

I believe that prior to the 90's the survey test that has issued in our era of testing would have shown lest than 5 percent potential positives. Now Cocaine? Lsd? Weed? For certain.

I think you are off by a factor of 10.

Athletes are highly competitive and time has shown that, in pretty much all sports, if they can get away with something and improve their chances of winning they are going to do it.

[Can_of_corn]

Not sure when you grew up, but pitchers have long been able to hit 100 since the 1920s.

Walter Johnson, Bob Fellar, Gibson, Randy Johnson, Seaver, Ryan, and many others could.

The difference than, was a handful of guys in the leagues could, now each team has 1-2 guys at least that can bring the hard heat.

Who, from lets say 1980-1987, was throwing harder then 95? Nolan Ryan in his mid 30's? Maybe cranking it up there once or twice a game. Maybe Lee Smith out of the pen hitting 97?

As for Johnson and Feller I never heard of either one getting a real gun reading on them, it is pretty unlikely that Johnson hit 100, have you seen his delivery?

I also don't think Seaver ever hit 100, if you have a reliable reference to it I would like to see it.

I think folks like to exaggerate about the good old days.

You could certainly make a case that Johnson was the first of the modern guys that could bring serious heat.

[Redskins Rick]

Who, from lets say 1980-1987, was throwing harder then 95? Nolan Ryan in his mid 30's? Maybe cranking it up there once or twice a game. Maybe Lee Smith out of the pen hitting 97?

As for Johnson and Feller I never heard of either one getting a real gun reading on them, it is pretty unlikely that Johnson hit 100, have you seen his delivery?

I also don't think Seaver ever hit 100, if you have a reliable reference to it I would like to see it.

I think folks like to exaggerate about the good old days.

You could certainly make a case that Johnson was the first of the modern guys that could bring serious heat.

They said Johnson was so fast, even the umpires had trouble seeing the ball.

And yes no reliable gun in Feller's day, but this is from his wiki:

There is footage of a Feller fastball being clocked by Army ordnance equipment (used to measure artillery shell velocity) and registering at 98.6 mph (159 kph).^[68] However, this took place in the later years of his career and the speed of the ball was measured as it crossed the plate (whereas later methods measure the speed as it leaves the pitcher's hand). With primitive equipment Feller was at one point measured at 105 mph (169 kph).^[12] Feller once mentioned that he was clocked at 104 mph (167 kph) at Lincoln Park in Chicago.^[69] He also threw the second fastest pitch ever officially recorded, at 107.6 mph (173.2 kph), in a game in 1946 at Griffith Stadium.

======================

Ted Williams said he would start thinking about Feller's fast ball three days before he faced him.

As for Seaver, he was clocked at 96 in the 76 All-Star Game late in his career. From what I read, he could sit in the mid-90 all day and reach back and take it up to 98 when he needed too. So technically, 98 isn't 100, so I concede you this one.

[Can_of_corn]

They said Johnson was so fast, even the umpires had trouble seeing the ball.

And yes no reliable gun in Feller's day, but this is from his wiki:

There is footage of a Feller fastball being clocked by Army ordnance equipment (used to measure artillery shell velocity) and registering at 98.6 mph (159 kph).^[68] However, this took place in the later years of his career and the speed of the ball was measured as it crossed the plate (whereas later methods measure the speed as it leaves the pitcher's hand). With primitive equipment Feller was at one point measured at 105 mph (169 kph).^[12] Feller once mentioned that he was clocked at 104 mph (167 kph) at Lincoln Park in Chicago.^[69] He also threw the second fastest pitch ever officially recorded, at 107.6 mph (173.2 kph), in a game in 1946 at Griffith Stadium.

======================

Ted Williams said he would start thinking about Feller's fast ball three days before he faced him.

As for Seaver, he was clocked at 96 in the 76 All-Star Game late in his career. From what I read, he could sit in the mid-90 all day and reach back and take it up to 98 when he needed too. So technically, 98 isn't 100, so I concede you this one.

I am a big Johnson fan, but I don't think he hit 100.

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Do you really think with that relaxed side arm motion he was hitting 100? Anyway, according to the Big Train Smokey Joe Wood was faster.

I do think it is very possible that, at least for a few years, Feller could hit 100, or at least darn close, there just isn't any proof.

Anyway, when I was growing up there was no where near the velocity you have in today's game.

[Redskins Rick]

I am a big Johnson fan, but I don't think he hit 100.

Do you really think with that relaxed side arm motion he was hitting 100? Anyway, according to the Big Train Smokey Joe Wood was faster.

I do think it is very possible that, at least for a few years, Feller could hit 100, or at least darn close, there just isn't any proof.

Anyway, when I was growing up there was no where near the velocity you have in today's game.

I found this:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

• • A varied assortment of men followed. The best throw was 86 feet a second, the second best 84. A man of about 60 years old did a foot for each of his years.Sponsors recalled that back in 1917, in Bridgeport (Conn.) arms laboratory,

    Walter Johnsonrecorded 134 feet per second, Christy Mathewson 127 and "Smoky Joe" Wood 124. They used a gravity drop interval recorder.The new meter, which gives an immediate reading which engineers said compared with standard laboratory meter accuracy, is built in a trailer. You throw into a hole two feet square. Just inside is a set of photo-electric tubes, and five feet back is another set. The device measures the ball's speed between the two points and flashes it on a scale facing the pitcher.Source: Richmond (VA) Times Dispatch, June 6, 1939.

Smoky Joe Wood often said, "I threw so hard, I thought my arm would fly right off my body." Walter Johnson, often cited as the fastest throwing pitcher in Major League history by experts, believed that Woodwas faster than himself and once said, "Mister, no man alive can throw a baseball harder than Joe Wood." Both were mentioned in the Meter to Record Feller's Speed article above and the unit of measure was feet per second. Modern measurements / clockings are done in miles per hour in the United States and kilometers per hour in Canada & Japan. Baseball Almanac is pleased to provide you with a velocity calculator which you can use to convert these various formats and compare pitchers - both modern and historical.

[joedogg9999]

You said it was overrated. I disagree. I think folks pay about as much attention to it as it deserves in today's game.

I don't think many of us are trying to make the case that velocity alone is sufficient. I am certainly not.

That being said velocity is a very important cog in the modern game. Joedog is right, CC is a perfect example of why velocity is important in today's game. Last season his velocity fell under the threshold it needed to be for him to perform at his accustomed level. Near as I can tell nothing else has changed in his game, just those 2-3 MPH.

This. Im not saying velocity is the end all be all, but its certainly not overated and is something the top 10-15 pitchers in the league all share. Those guys I mention also have great offspeed and breaking balls too but those pitches are made that much harder to hit when the batter is also battling fastballs over 94 mph. There is cointless examples feom around the league of guys being ace or almost ace caliber and then losing 2-3 mph of velocity on their fastballs and suddenly they are very hittable pitchers.

[Creamsicle]

I have no idea how fast Walter Johnson threw. I do know that in almost every sport, athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger than the generations before. It's only logical to think that more pitchers on average throw harder than in the past and that the bar has been raised on top velocity.

This is self-evident.

I like the discussion about how hard the old timers threw compared to now... one factor I don't see mentioned, though, is that pitchers threw many, many, many more pitches back in Johnson's and Feller's day. That may be even more important than advancements in athleticism/training in accounting for speed increasing. I mean, let's say that WJ and BF could indeed throw 100mph. How many times could they do it if they had to toss 150 times every 4 days as opposed to 100 times every 5 days?

[Can_of_corn]

This is self-evident.

I like the discussion about how hard the old timers threw compared to now... one factor I don't see mentioned, though, is that pitchers threw many, many, many more pitches back in Johnson's and Feller's day. That may be even more important than advancements in athleticism/training in accounting for speed increasing. I mean, let's say that WJ and BF could indeed throw 100mph. How many times could they do it if they had to toss 150 times every 4 days as opposed to 100 times every 5 days?

Famously as Johnson aged he could no longer pitch as deep into games. The first "closer" was a converted starter whose main job was to finish Johnson's starts.

[Frobby]

I found this:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

• • A varied assortment of men followed. The best throw was 86 feet a second, the second best 84. A man of about 60 years old did a foot for each of his years.Sponsors recalled that back in 1917, in Bridgeport (Conn.) arms laboratory, Walter Johnsonrecorded 134 feet per second, Christy Mathewson 127 and "Smoky Joe" Wood 124. They used a gravity drop interval recorder.The new meter, which gives an immediate reading which engineers said compared with standard laboratory meter accuracy, is built in a trailer. You throw into a hole two feet square. Just inside is a set of photo-electric tubes, and five feet back is another set. The device measures the ball's speed between the two points and flashes it on a scale facing the pitcher.Source: Richmond (VA) Times Dispatch, June 6, 1939.

If my math is right, 134 feet/second is 91 mph.

[Redskins Rick]

If my math is right, 134 feet/second is 91 mph.

I was going to do the math and lost track of what I was doing.

I concede to you that I was wrong.

I can't image catching 91 MPH with no real catcher's mitt and very little protective gear.

[scOtt]

I am a big Johnson fan, but I don't think he hit 100.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/imwUHeuVqME?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Do you really think with that relaxed side arm motion he was hitting 100? Anyway, according to the Big Train Smokey Joe Wood was faster.

I do think it is very possible that, at least for a few years, Feller could hit 100, or at least darn close, there just isn't any proof.

Anyway, when I was growing up there was no where near the velocity you have in today's game.

Man I love that footage! Watched it a hundred times. Such an odd whipping delivery.

[Can_of_corn]

Man I love that footage! Watched it a hundred times. Such an odd whipping delivery.

I agree, it's great. I just don't see it producing 100 MPH. Of course it could have looked 100 MPH.