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Olbermann: Derek Jeter Isn't The Greatest Player Ever

Plutarch

By Plutarch
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O's84 Hangout Grand Counsel

O's84

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Major props! Finally someone had the guts to stand up and tell the truth. It's gotten so ridiculous with all these gifts. I mean Michael Jordan got all these going away presents and tributes when he retired but he was the greatest NBA player of all time. Jeter isn't even close!

I mean seriously, if this guy plays his career somewhere else does anybody think he get's a national going away tour of tribute? We'd only talk about him a fraction of what were doing. Look, the guy is a great player and a HOF but he is so overrated and frankly the amount of constant adulation has gotten so tiring.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Ehh, I think Olberdouche's rant here was a bit over the top but made a few good points.

I think Jeter is a great player, no doubt a first ballot Hall of Famer. But the Olberdouche piece overlooked a few things...he never was a big power guy, so to judge him where he ranks in terms of the power stats is just stupid, especially against his Yankee peers, some of the best ever power men to play the game. Of course he's going to fall way behind guys like Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle...most players do.

So take the power aspect away, what does leading the league in a stat really have to do with anything? How many times did Cal lead the league in anything other than games played? 7 times. Three of those were in 1983. One of those things he lead the league in was GDP. So if you're not going to judge Jeter on the power, look at his hit totals which are pretty awesome and that includes 8 seasons over 200 hits. Moreover, Jeter's career overlapped with a guy named Ichiro who had a lock on leading the league in hits for almost a decade.

MVPs? Dale Murphy won two MVPs and so did Juan Gonzalez. Does that mean they should be in the Hall of Fame, or heavily considered? After all, they both lead the league in things more than Jeter did. So if we're measuring leading the league in something and MVPs, Dale Murphy and Juan Gonzalez are better players than Derek Jeter, according to Olberdouche.

Olberdouche did make a big deal out of the WAR and leading the league in stuff, so did he bother to see that Jeter lead the league in offensive WAR twice? Probably not.

He's 6th all time in hits which is remarkable, it shows a level of consistency in a game that rewards consistency. He's 10th all time in runs scored. He batted 2nd a lot for his career so he never was a big RBI guy, it's unfair to measure his greatness off that stat. He's got an excellent postseason record, and he's not some clutch God as the media would have you believe....he just simply carried his regular season success into the postseason where he hit well because he's...Derek Jeter.

I work with a big Yankees fan who just turned 26. Naturally he thinks Jeter walks on water and he was absolutely mortified when I showed him Jeter's bbref page and showed him the "clutch" stats. Nothing extraordinary, just right in line with his career averages. He's got his highlight reel moments, for sure.

His defensive record is undefensible, though. There's really not much else to be said. He made the jump throw in the hole thing cool, he's got the flip play in the playoffs. But all the metrics point to a subpar defender, especially in the last few years.

He's got movie star looks, plays in the biggest media market ever for the most winningest team ever and never lost a World Series. It might not be fair, but all that adds up.

I think a lot of his detractors like to play the "If" game. I used to be one of those, and then I realized one day it was a dumbass argument to make. "If Jeter played somewhere else..." Well maybe, but he didn't. All we know is what we know and that is that Jeter played SS for the Yankees, had a lot of hits and won 5 titles. "If Giambi slid..." Well maybe, but he didn't. It's not Jeter's fault that Giambi didn't slide. The whole "If" arguments surrounding him bug me. It's just a way to discredit and hypothesize stuff that didn't happen in a weak-ass attempt to lessen what actually did happen.

Orioles fans over a certain age spent a lot of their spring and summers watching a fantastic shortstop play for this team. I'm not here to argue that Jeter is better than Ripken or vice versa, that's not my point. But we lauded Ripken for "playing the game the right way" which is a cliche term that gets bandied about when we like to praise athletes who show up every day, play hard and have a good overall attitude. For the same reasons we love Cal, we should also like Jeter. Leaving stats out of the conversation aren't they very similar in their work ethics and attitude? Didn't they both "play the game the right way"? Aren't they two guys who played their entire careers for one organization? Didn't Cal get some dumbass final tour around the league collecting gifts from other teams?

Oldberdouche has gone on rampages before about players using steroids, PEDs, whatever. Here's a guy who's beginning and prime of his career was smack in the middle of that mess and was never ONCE mentioned in all of it. So which is it, what do you want? A guy who plays the game the right way, doesn't lead the league in a lot of things, wins a bunch of games, rings or a guy who wins MVPs and leads the league in bunch of stuff while 'roiding all the way?

His whole argument and criteria for judging Jeter doesn't make sense, except in the fact that it's shined some of Jeter's spotlight for his final week on Olberdouche, a man who is always looking for the spotlight and will do anything to get a bit of it. In that case, mission accomplished, Olberdouche.

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callahan09 All-Star

callahan09

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The only thing that bugs me is that people bring up guys offensive stats to prove he was the "best" short stop, or at least the best offensive short stop. For me, that doesn't impress me, because I don't consider him a legit short stop. He just played the position every day, but it was ridiculous that he did. He wasn't a good short stop, therefore it doesn't impress me when a non-short stop has better offensive numbers than most short stops while playing a position he shouldn't necessarily even be playing.

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25 Nuggets Hangout Grand Counsel

25 Nuggets

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Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Love it.

Holy crap hahahahahaha

But still, my response to all of this is a resounding "MEH"

Guess what, Mariano Rivera isn't the greatest baseball player ever. Cal Ripken Jr is not the greatest baseball player ever. There's only three people in the past 30 years with an argument, and two of them are in the "greatest pitcher" category, and two of them were riddled with so many steroids they'll never have kids again if they wanted to:

Greg Maddux

Roger Clemens

Barry Bonds

Period. Even Albert Pujols falls a little short of the "greatest player ever" conversation, and he's the closest thing we've seen to Lou Gehring since... Lou Gehrig. And while we're at it, Lou Gehrig falls short of the "greatest player ever" conversation.

These are the people I've seen with such an argument... note that I disagree with all but one of them :P

Barry Bonds*

Ty Cobb

Walter Johnson

Willie Mays

Babe Ruth

Honus Wagner

Ted Williams

The end.

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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

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Holy crap hahahahahaha

But still, my response to all of this is a resounding "MEH"

Guess what, Mariano Rivera isn't the greatest baseball player ever. Cal Ripken Jr is not the greatest baseball player ever. There's only three people in the past 30 years with an argument, and two of them are in the "greatest pitcher" category, and two of them were riddled with so many steroids they'll never have kids again if they wanted to:

Greg Maddux

Roger Clemens

Barry Bonds

Period. Even Albert Pujols falls a little short of the "greatest player ever" conversation, and he's the closest thing we've seen to Lou Gehring since... Lou Gehrig. And while we're at it, Lou Gehrig falls short of the "greatest player ever" conversation.

These are the people I've seen with such an argument... note that I disagree with all but one of them :P

Barry Bonds*

Ty Cobb

Walter Johnson

Willie Mays

Babe Ruth

Honus Wagner

Ted Williams

The end.

Wow. You must be old. I've seen Ted Williams, Willie Mays, and Barry Bonds, but the others all played long before my parents met. :)

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