Gausman down, Drake up

[El Gordo]

Lowest FIP on the staff last year.

Better SO/9 than Chen, Gonzalez or Tillman.

Lowest HR/9 on staff, for a team built around defense.

Three years younger than the next youngest starter on the staff.

No one "owes" him anything. I just wish the organization showed some interest in actually putting him in a position to grow at the major league level.

What do you do about Tillman and Norris? Put Norris in the pen and hope Tillman straightens himself out?

[Stotle]

What do you do about Tillman and Norris? Put Norris in the pen and hope Tillman straightens himself out?

I don't know -- probably would have thought about that during the six months there were no games after writing Gausman's name into the rotation in blue ink.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Lowest FIP on the staff last year.

Better SO/9 than Chen, Gonzalez or Tillman.

Lowest HR/9 on staff, for a team built around defense.

Three years younger than the next youngest starter on the staff.

No one "owes" him anything. I just wish the organization showed some interest in actually putting him in a position to grow at the major league level.

Ehh, I'm gonna guess those other guys also averaged more than 5.5 innings per start in many more starts and the Orioles FIP/ERA issues have been well discussed. I mentioned in another thread that I'd rather have Gausman over Hammels, so I am not down on him. He is just not owed anything. If the Orioles plan is to develop him and split his innings at the major and Mil levels this year, I'd assume working on his breaking ball more in the minors, I am perfectly fine with it.

I also understand the Norris versus Gausman argument being made as well.

[El Gordo]

I don't know -- probably would have thought about that during the six months there were no games after writing Gausman's name into the rotation in blue ink.

I see, you would have anticipated that both would have down years and traded one or both over the winter regardless of what you were offered, because you were that high on Gausman.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It's a good thing letting him start a game for the big club didn't screw up that nice run that Mike Wright, Bud Norris, and Chris Tillman were able to put together around him. It's always a pleasure watching those three go out there and consistently execute. Hopefully Gausman will learn to be that effective when given his next opportunity...

Snark aside, as far as i can tell the Orioles are managing the roster to help the Orioles win games. Overall, I think they're doing ok with that. Gausman's usage and development part of that. I'm pretty content with it. I see the Red Sox had a nice game today.

[Barnaby Graves]

I see, you would have anticipated that both would have down years and traded one or both over the winter regardless of what you were offered, because you were that high on Gausman.

If I put Gausman in the rotation I'd obviously keep Tillman in there and put Norris in the pen. Norris had a good year but an anomalously low H/9. It's as much about the future which Norris probably isn't a part of and after Tillman, Gonzo, Chen, Ubaldo, and Gausman, he's just the odd man out. The other 5 have to play, and I tell myself it's a good thing I have a convertible starter in the pen in case of Ubaldo or Gausman issues.

[Stotle]

I see, you would have anticipated that both would have down years and traded one or both over the winter regardless of what you were offered, because you were that high on Gausman.

I would have made Gausman in the rotation a priority and then planned accordingly. We're not talking about bumping one of Kershaw/Greinke here...

[Reboulet'sStache]

Seems to me we've done a good job with quite few pitchers at the ML and Mil level the past few years so I'm not sure sure we're all that inept with pitchers as people seem to think we are.

But have we? It seems like we have a bunch of "just add water" ready type pitchers, or guys with low ceilings but have a great feel for the game. Which doesn't mean our organization hasn't helped them, for all I know they are directly responsible for their success. But I'd be more impressed if we were developing the "raw" guys who really needed a lot of help. And when I look at those guys, Tillman still can't throw a curve. Arrieta had to be traded away where he became a star. EdRod struggled and was traded. Gausman still has no breaking ball.

[El Gordo]

I would have made Gausman in the rotation a priority and then planned accordingly. We're not talking about bumping one of Kershaw/Greinke here...

What exactly do you mean by "accordingly". You have to do something with both these guys what would it have been? I imagine they tried to trade Norris and didn't get value offered so the hoped he would have a decent year and they could move him at the deadline. I think they still hope to do that. Do you really mean that last winter you were so high on Gausman that you wanted to move Tillman to make room for him?

[Stotle]

What exactly do you mean by "accordingly". You have to do something with both these guys what would it have been? I imagine they tried to trade Norris and didn't get value offered so the hoped he would have a decent year and they could move him at the deadline. I think they still hope to do that. Do you really mean that last winter you were so high on Gausman that you wanted to move Tillman to make room for him?

I imagine they didn't try to trade Norris. I would have been fine trading Tillman with confidence Gausman would be a suitable replacement, but I don't think Baltimore would have had to move Tillman. You believe Norris will be easier to trade now for "value" than he was in the offseason? He's tradeable now but you aren't getting #4 starter value for him.

[hoosiers]

Lowest FIP on the staff last year.

Better SO/9 than Chen, Gonzalez or Tillman.

Lowest HR/9 on staff, for a team built around defense.

Three years younger than the next youngest starter on the staff.

No one "owes" him anything. I just wish the organization showed some interest in actually putting him in a position to grow at the major league level.

Isn't this the "Post of the Year"?

DD may want to create as much of a bench as possible to supplement his 25 man roster over a long season, but anyone wanting to improve upon our GM would simply put Gausman into the rotation to lower payroll and improve the w-l record. This was advocated before the 2014 season and the signing of Jimenez ($12M, 0 WAR, lost draft pick). Now we see Mike Wright get six starts in 2015 before Gausman gets his first.

One can look at other top college starting pitchers and see how the White Sox already have Rodon into the rotation, the Indians gave Bauer 26 starts last year, etc. This treatment of Gausman has been insane - from yo-yoing him in 2014, to putting him in the bullpen, to telling him how much he will mean to the 2015 rotation to where we are today.

Just give him the ball as a SP every fifth day as a Baltimore Oriole. It's not complicated.

[Crazysilver03]

Isn't this the "Post of the Year"?

DD may want to create as much of a bench as possible to supplement his 25 man roster over a long season, but anyone wanting to improve upon our GM would simply put Gausman into the rotation to lower payroll and improve the w-l record. This was advocated before the 2014 season and the signing of Jimenez ($12M, 0 WAR, lost draft pick). Now we see Mike Wright get six starts in 2015 before Gausman gets his first.

One can look at other top college starting pitchers and see how the White Sox already have Rodon into the rotation, the Indians gave Bauer 26 starts last year, etc. This treatment of Gausman has been insane - from yo-yoing him in 2014, to putting him in the bullpen, to telling him how much he will mean to the 2015 rotation to where we are today.

Just give him the ball as a SP every fifth day as a Baltimore Oriole. It's not complicated.

Agree with most of your post. Don't see the point to bring Wright into this since he pitched due to injury. And hasn't he had just 4 starts?

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[CA-ORIOLE]

But have we? It seems like we have a bunch of "just add water" ready type pitchers' date=' or guys with low ceilings but have a great feel for the game. Which doesn't mean our organization hasn't helped them, for all I know they are directly responsible for their success. But I'd be more impressed if we were developing the "raw" guys who really needed a lot of help. And when I look at those guys, Tillman still can't throw a curve. Arrieta had to be traded away where he became a star. EdRod struggled and was traded. Gausman still has no breaking ball.[/quote']

It's the organization's fault that Tillman (a guy who's stuff/peripherals was considered questionable to begin with) has lost his curve ball (and changeup) at this point? Hunter is throwing a pretty good curveball now after never having one. Chen has improved his slider and his changeup and his velocity/durability with better conditioning. Britton has become a lights out closer. Gonzales (discarded by the vaunted Red Sox) has a lot of nice secondaries which have seemed to improve each year. Ubaldo has improved this year after admitting his offseason FA regimen was integral to his failure last year. Darin O'Day was discarded by Texas after poor performance and has been lights out every single year. Guys like Brad Brach and Chaz Roe were picked up of the scrap heap and have become effective performers. I could go on. We were third in raw ERA last year. Admittedly we weren't brilliant enough to spend 100's of millions on signing a fat third baseman and a klutz to play LF. So what if we have marginal pitchers if it's cheap and effective? Before the Rays got Price they were very effective with 5 number 2-3 starters and defense like we were last year when we won 96 games.

As far as the minors, my only observation is that the guys I'm seeing come up seem to be prepared to pitch at the ML level. Yeah, Wright is probably not starter material, but we probably knew that in the first place , Wilson has looked good and I have confidence that Gausman will be at least a good starter for us next year, if not by the end of this year. I don't have any issues with what the Orioles are dong with him.

The Arrieta thing has been beat to death. Besides "Erod" who is apparently destined to go on and win the CY Young this year, what young pitching have the Red Sox developed in the past 4-5 years?

If we're effective with defense and cost effective pitchers within that defense, I'm fine with that strategy. I don't care about their pedigree. That said, I do think guys like Harvey, Bundy, Gausman all have high upside. Guys that DD purposely held onto. I know 2 of 3 are injured. So, we'll see. As far as Gausman goes, I think he could be effective now, but if the Orioles plan is to develop him concurrently at the Ml and Mil level then i have no issue with that. He needs a curve or a slider to reach his potential.

[El Gordo]

Wouldn't Gausman have been in the rotation replacing Gonzo had he not been injured himself?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Isn't this the "Post of the Year"?

DD may want to create as much of a bench as possible to supplement his 25 man roster over a long season, but anyone wanting to improve upon our GM would simply put Gausman into the rotation to lower payroll and improve the w-l record. This was advocated before the 2014 season and the signing of Jimenez ($12M, 0 WAR, lost draft pick). Now we see Mike Wright get six starts in 2015 before Gausman gets his first..

So says the guy who started his own thread about the Jiminez signing and had this to say at the time of the signing:

Ubaldo Signing Legitimizes Team

Signing Jimenez appears to be a master play by DD for many reasons.

First and most obvious, it pushes a question mark of a fifth starter position and turns it into a strength.

Second, the team now looks at additional top free agents as costing less - second round pick.

Third, the deal structure lays a framework for what Santana might have to accept or perhaps force Santana to take less. The Ubaldo signing might have Santana saying, "hey, I'd accept that deal" (or a bit less) when perhaps Santana was asking for more previously.

Fourth, the Os are a more legit competitor in the AL with Ubaldo and thus a more desired destination. The remaining FAs can see that going to Bmore will result in a competitive team. Further, the remaining FAs, particularly Morales, can see exactly what the DH position gave Bmore last year, is projected to provide this year, and what additional competitiveness Morales can provide.

The cost of the pick for Jiminez is significant, but DD is taking advantage of market conditions in a fine way. It seems in prior years that just when the Os felt like they had a good FA cornered, some other team popped into the picture as a preferred destination. For some reason, with the additional $ flowing to teams from the national contract and other revenue sources, it does seem like the Os are perfectly positioned in this market to add at least one more plus FA talent without a larger market team sneaking in at the last second. To prove this good positioning, and to get the momentum rolling, the signing of Ubaldo appears to legitimize the Os and could not have been timed or structured better.

Doesn't exactly sound like he's advocating plugging in Gausman in the 2014 rotation and saving money and draft picks by passing on Ubaldo. Heck, if you read the third point he's actually advocating signing Ervin Santana on top of Jiminez.