Why trade Roberts?

[allstar1579]

Assuming that the rumored deal (Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal, Ceda) was correct, then I would think that McPhail asked for all of that pitching rather than focusing on positional players. I would think that a deal could have been worked out including Patterson, Fontenot, and/or Colvin if McPhail backed off of his demand for 4-5 players. Getting Patterson and Cedeno would certainly give you a shot at having at least one of them succeeding as a positional player. It looks like the deal fell through because McPhail got greedy and wanted pitching plus positional players. Also, I'm sure Murton was offered earlier in the negotiations, but rejected by the O's.

You don't know that AM asked for all that, and if he had asked for it, he would have taken the deal. Look at the overall view of the franchise and the one thing we are more than deep on are pitching prospects. If we do acquire all of those pitchers, then it stunts the development of the ones we already have. If we didn't have some injuries pop up, we would have a problem of too many as it is. It is a case where sometimes the best addition is a subtraction.

If Murton was so great, he wouldn't be teetering on being released. Fontenot is a great kid, but nothing more than a throw-in. Patterson has been reduced to an OF because his defense is so bad, we've already had one run in with that family. If Hendry was willing to give up Pie, Colvin, and a pitcher, we might be looking at a done deal, but if those are the players he's not looking to move, then we don't match up, just like we don't match up with the Dodgers without them moving Either, Kemp, Hu or Laroche.

[allstar1579]

All I'm asking is for you to give us a recent trade that is comparable, and supports your theory that a better package of prospects will be offered for Roberts this July.

Just find a valid comp that backs you up on this. That's not an unreasonable request, is it?

Don't come back and say it can't be done, like you did earlier. I've just shown it can.

And Lofton for two guys even older than he was (Grissom and Justice) in the offseason surely isn't what we're after. That one misses the mark on the July part, and on the prospects part too.

And I have told you that you are not a Major League GM, let alone all of them, so it is in fact impossible to say that someone out there is not going to offer a better package than the package you subjectively feel will be superior. You can look at all of the historical trades you want, but all that will let you do is speculate, and you are asking for factual proof, which is impossible. Neither one of us has any idea what is going to happen this season, whether Brian goes on to start the all-star team, or gets hurt and misses the season, so we can not say what is going to happen to influence things to make a better offer feasible.

What I am saying, and you just refuse to believe, is that an offer can very easily come along better than what your precious Cubs have offered just by the fact that they can offer position players where you guys' best trade chips are all pitchers, which we are loaded with.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Well, that's nice. Good for him. I guess he really showed AM a thing or two.

Can we quit talking about the Cubs now?

I hope to God we can:(

Go AWAY cubs!!!!!!!:002_stongue:

[davearm]

You don't know that AM asked for all that, and if he had asked for it, he would have taken the deal. Look at the overall view of the franchise and the one thing we are more than deep on are pitching prospects. If we do acquire all of those pitchers, then it stunts the development of the ones we already have. If we didn't have some injuries pop up, we would have a problem of too many as it is. It is a case where sometimes the best addition is a subtraction.

If Murton was so great, he wouldn't be teetering on being released. Fontenot is a great kid, but nothing more than a throw-in. Patterson has been reduced to an OF because his defense is so bad, we've already had one run in with that family. If Hendry was willing to give up Pie, Colvin, and a pitcher, we might be looking at a done deal, but if those are the players he's not looking to move, then we don't match up, just like we don't match up with the Dodgers without them moving Either, Kemp, Hu or Laroche.

You're really not being realistic about this.

The Cubs have plenty of positional talent, if that's what MacPhail wants. In the OF there's Murton, Colvin, Burke, Fuld, Kroeger and others; in the IF there's Cedeno, Patterson, Fontenot, Hoffpaiur, Fox. And several of those guys are flexible 1B/OF/DH types.

They've got plenty of pitching talent too, and all indications are that MacPhail targeted this over the positional guys -- Gallagher, Marshall, Veal, Ceda, etc. etc.

The problem is that you seem to believe Roberts is worth an elite, grade-A caliber prospect like Pie (plus a few more solid guys), and he just isn't. Nobody's offering that, and nobody will.

An assortment of 3-5 guys the caliber of those I just listed is what's realistic, and the Cubs can supply all sorts of combinations of IFs/OFs/SPs/RPs in this pricerange.

[davearm]

And I have told you that you are not a Major League GM, let alone all of them, so it is in fact impossible to say that someone out there is not going to offer a better package than the package you subjectively feel will be superior. You can look at all of the historical trades you want, but all that will let you do is speculate, and you are asking for factual proof, which is impossible. Neither one of us has any idea what is going to happen this season, whether Brian goes on to start the all-star team, or gets hurt and misses the season, so we can not say what is going to happen to influence things to make a better offer feasible.

What I am saying, and you just refuse to believe, is that an offer can very easily come along better than what your precious Cubs have offered just by the fact that they can offer position players where you guys' best trade chips are all pitchers, which we are loaded with.

So you're admitting that there's no historical precedent for this better package that you're expecting in July?

[Sports Guy]

So you're admitting that there's no historical precedent for this better package that you're expecting in July?

What difference does it make if there is one or not?

The bottom line is if BRob is performing and there is more competition to acquire his services, the Cubs package can easily be beaten.

Now, that doesn't mean it wasn't a good package and it doesn't mean AM is making the right decision but the idea that this is some great and superior package is a joke.

It is a good package and one we shouldn't turn down but its not some incredible package littered with all stars that you Cubs fans make it out to be.

[allstar1579]

You're really not being realistic about this.

The Cubs have plenty of positional talent, if that's what MacPhail wants. In the OF there's Murton, Colvin, Burke, Fuld, Kroeger and others; in the IF there's Cedeno, Patterson, Fontenot, Hoffpaiur, Fox. And several of those guys are flexible 1B/OF/DH types.

They've got plenty of pitching talent too, and all indications are that MacPhail targeted this over the positional guys -- Gallagher, Marshall, Veal, Ceda, etc. etc.

The problem is that you seem to believe Roberts is worth an elite, grade-A caliber prospect like Pie (plus a few more solid guys), and he just isn't. Nobody's offering that, and nobody will.

An assortment of 3-5 guys the caliber of those I just listed is what's realistic, and the Cubs can supply all sorts of combinations of IFs/OFs/SPs/RPs in this pricerange.

No the problem here is that you believe that anyone your Cubs want to trade for is attainable because anyone would be crazy not to want your prospects. If you think that we can not find a better group of positional prospects from those that you are mentioning, then your homer streak has put the blinders on you my friend. You guys have the 20th best minor league system, and most of that reason are your pitchers. That means there are 18 other teams out there, besides ourselves, with better minor league talent to choose from.

You are just generalizing now, you think you know what I would ask for if I was McPhail. The truth is, I would ask for Pie, Colvin, Gallagher, and Ceda, not because I think it is a fair trade, but because I am not interested in dealing with the Cubs because we do not match up, need for need, so I would ask for the moon, and if you all were silly enough to give it to us, then great!

If you think Pie is still holding firm to that elite prospect status, you hold on to that hope, but this will be a make or break season for him. If he doesn't do the job and gets relegated to the bench, or sent to AAA, what you can get for him is going to drop like a rock.

Not everyone on this board is the same, a lot of us are very intelligent fans and are looking for fair value and a good match in players in return, the two are not necessarily the same thing. You could give fair value, there is no doubt there, but it would not be a good match for us, and we should not be interested.

[Peace21]

I think the question should be, do the Orioles need to trade Roberts now?

[Sports Guy]

I think the question should be, do the Orioles need to trade Roberts now?

If the right deal is there....yes.

[allstar1579]

So you're admitting that there's no historical precedent for this better package that you're expecting in July?

No, I am admitting that there is not precedent for ANY package ever made until it is, and every trade between every GM and every team is different.

When Henderson was traded for Karsay, he was one of the top prospects in the game. When Lofton was traded, like you alluded to, he was traded for another elite leadoff man and a legit cleanup hitter as well. You want history to dictate the future, and I hate to be the one to tell you, but that's not how things work. History and the future may correlate, but don't expect it to repeat itself.

You may not realize you are doing it, but it definitely comes off like you are talking down to us on here, and we don't appreciate it.

[Peace21]

If the right deal is there....yes.

Do you get the sense the organization is divided on trading Roberts?

[Sports Guy]

Do you get the sense the organization is divided on trading Roberts?

Not at all.....I just think AM wants too much. He isn't being realistic IMO.

[allstar1579]

Do you get the sense the organization is divided on trading Roberts?

I think they wouldn't mind if they just kept him, but if they have a chance to deal him for some position prospects that would really help speed things along, they would do it. There is no rush.

[Peace21]

Not at all.....I just think AM wants too much. He isn't being realistic IMO.

But isnt that how he approached the Tejada and Bedard deals?

[Fan4Life]

The problem is that you seem to believe Roberts is worth an elite, grade-A caliber prospect like Pie (plus a few more solid guys), and he just isn't. Nobody's offering that, and nobody will..

Isn't it possible the Pie struggles the first couple months and the FO takes a different look at his being an "A"?