stupid 0-2 pitch calls

[Frobby]

I don't know if blame belongs to catchers, pitchers, or both, but one consistent problem of this team is pitchers throwing incredibly hittable 0-2 pitches, instead of pitches below or well above the zone as they should. Gausman said his 0-2 homer pitch was right where he wanted it, which was a dumb place to want it. Ubaldo didn't try to throw his 0-2 pitch down today, and turned it into a grand slam.

As they showed on the replay, Ubaldo threw that pitch at least a foot above where Wieters had set the target. Not a bad call; it was terrible execution.

[Can_of_corn]

As they showed on the replay, Ubaldo threw that pitch at least a foot above where Wieters had set the target. Not a bad call; it was terrible execution.

It was Joseph.

[El Gordo]

As they showed on the replay, Ubaldo threw that pitch at least a foot above where Wieters had set the target. Not a bad call; it was terrible execution.

Since Wieters was on the bench no wonder he missed the target.

[Frobby]

Tom, take AJ as an example. After every AB he puts his helmet up, a goes directly to the OF end of the dugout with Schoop and Manny..Then the next AB he'll do the same thing. First pitch swinging, chasing breaking balls in the dirt. So either he's uncoachable or he isn't being coached.

Do you know what Jones hits on the first pitch for his career?

369/387/619 for a 1006 OPS.

Seems pretty good to me.

Can't coach that.

While I am not necessarily against a hitter swinging at a 0-0 pitch in a spot he's looking for, citing a player's stats on 0-0 counts is extremely misleading. Why? Because it doesn't take into account the effect of all the first-pitch swings where the player does not put the ball in play and puts himself an 0-1 disadvantage. You can't strike out on an 0-0 pitch, but a strike there constitutes 1/3 of an eventual strikeout and may force the hitter to expand the zone later in the count.

In Jones' case, he has resolved a PA on the first pitch 731 times, but he has swung at the first pitch 2,021 times. So, that's 1,290 times he's been down in the count 0-1 after swinging at the first pitch. He's a .659 OPS hitter after being down 0-1, and an .868 OPS hitter when ahead 1-0.

The analysis doesn't stop there, because some of those first pitch swings are on pitches that would have been called strikes anyway. And you also have to take into account the benefit to the pitcher of getting an out on one pitch, in the 63% of times when Jones puts the ball in play on the first pitch and makes an out.

Bottom line, just citing a slash line from when the batter puts the ball in play on the first pitch is always going to overstate the effectiveness of swinging at the first pitch. But that doesn't mean that hitters should never swing at the first pitch, either.

[Frobby]

It was Joseph.

You are right, but my point remains the same. The fault was with Ubaldo for missing the target by a foot or more.

[Can_of_corn]

You are right, but my point remains the same. The fault was with Ubaldo for missing the target by a foot or more.

Wasn't being critical or snarky, just informative.

[Frobby]

Wasn't being critical or snarky, just informative.

I didn't take it as critical. Thanks for correcting me.

[JayThomas]

Do you know what Jones hits on the first pitch for his career?

369/387/619 for a 1006 OPS.

Seems pretty good to me.

Can somebody explain the difference between the BA and the OBP here on 1st pitch data? I assume hit-by-pitch? Jones gets .020 on 1st pitch hit-by-pitch? What else could it be?

[Frobby]

Can somebody explain the difference between the BA and the OBP here on 1st pitch data? I assume hit-by-pitch? Jones gets .020 on 1st pitch hit-by-pitch? What else could it be?

That's part of what it is. He's been hit 24 times on the first pitch. He's also had 9 sac bunts/sac flies, which cut the other way (they lower his OBP but not his BA).

[Nevermore]

Your premise is flawed. Catchers call pitches, pitchers make them hittable. Or not.

I thought that the catcher calls the pitch and the pitcher pitches it or shakes off the sign. If Caleb calls for a fast ball when he should have called for a split finger or a curve, what should the pitcher do if he feels that such a ball is likely more hittable? Shake off the sign?

[Can_of_corn]

I thought that the catcher calls the pitch and the pitcher pitches it or shakes off the sign. If Caleb calls for a fast ball when he should have called for a split finger or a curve, what should the pitcher do if he feels that such a ball is likely more hittable? Shake off the sign?

It's on the pitcher.

He owns the pitch, not the catcher.

Of course he should shake the catcher off.

[Nevermore]

It's on the pitcher.

He owns the pitch, not the catcher.

Of course he should shake the catcher off.

Thanks for the information.

Ubaldo had some fastball command problems. He probably meant to throw low and instead it stayed up. And away it went.