Is now the time to rebuild?

[OrioleLochRaven]

With the state of the AL East and the state of our current roster/contracts, is now the ideal time to rebuild? (I know this isn't a new idea, just putting it on paper)

Even with our big trade chips in tow, we are destined for the bottom of the division. Why not trade Machado now for the best package you can get? Maybe hold Britton and let him reestablish his value and trade him at the deadline.  Move Jones too if you get a representative offer.  Move Trumbo and Davis if you could pull of that miracle. Finally take the team in some direction other than purgatory.

Make the prime years of Schoop, Gausman, Mancini and Bundy your new window. Find players who will be reaching their primes with those guys and young guys like Austin Hays etc. By that time maybe we will be able to field a good team across the diamond and challenge the Yankees and Red Sox. With the resources of our rivals, it would be best to pull back now and try to accumulate talent to make a good run at them rather than continuing to put band aids on gaping wounds.

I use to be all for trying to keep Machado, but with the Yankees recent acquisition of Stanton, it's clear that our current model won't ever be successful. I think we need to take the Cubs approach and try to accumulate young talent that can move forward together. I think apathy will set in among the fanbase with another year of stop gaps, mediocre veterans and trying to grasp at a one game wildcard. The losses would mount with a youth movement, but at least we would have prospects to be excited about. There would be a definitive direction. Right now there is none.  

[clapdiddy]

I agree with your premise, but I'd include Schoop in the trade mix.   He only has 2 years left here, and he may be the most valuable trade chip of all.

[Frobby]

This has been a major topic of discussion here for months.   I think the clear majority of posters think we should be rebuilding now, but also expect that won’t happen this winter.   

[Eddie_Murray33]

I was probably one of the last holdouts (was so nice to play competent to occasionally great ball since ‘12). That said- our “window” (i.e. 2014-16) has closed- and it’s pretty darn hard to argue against a complete “tear down” at this point when you look at what that approach delivered in Kansas City, Chicago (NL) and Houston...

[sportsfan8703]

Why would an O’s fan want a complete rebuild when we don’t sign international free agents?  It would be a disaster. Or another 14 years of losing. 

[Luke-OH]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Why would an O’s fan want a complete rebuild when we don’t sign international free agents?  It would be a disaster. Or another 14 years of losing. 

There is enough of a core and a strong enough farm system that they don't need to do a full rebuild.  Just a sell-off of all one year assets (except Jones due to 10 and 5 rights plus not having much surplus value due to his 17m salary).  If they do well in those trades and perhaps extend Gausman/Schoop the Orioles will go into 2019 with a strong young core and plenty of payroll room to add.

[sportsfan8703]

11 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

There is enough of a core and a strong enough farm system that they don't need to do a full rebuild.  Just a sell-off of all one year assets (except Jones due to 10 and 5 rights plus not having much surplus value due to his 17m salary).  If they do well in those trades and perhaps extend Gausman/Schoop the Orioles will go into 2019 with a strong young core and plenty of payroll room to add.

I agree with that. But that’s a tough sell to fans. “ Hey we have to trade away these guys because we can’t afford them”. “Here are shiny new extensions for Schoop, Bundy, Gausman.”  

This is why PA must keep DD as GM because he’s the only guy in baseball that can have sustained winning while dealing with all of PA’s crap. We laugh at DD’s depth signings but if we didn’t have those we would have collapsed more than just last year. The guy is a grinder as a GM. He’s accepted that this job is hard and that he’s not crying about it. 

This organization needs an infusion of SP. Teams aren’t giving that away. We can’t even get that for Machado. Our next wave of prospects are all position players and some relievers. 

A rebuild would be ugly. I see us giving it hell until the trade deadline and then maybe selling if we’re way out of it. So a mini sell off. But not until July. 

People just need to accept reality that we’re going to have to root for a team with a rotation of Liriano, Tillman and Mike Wright at the back end of it. Haha. Maybe we get Matt Harvey. 

[Luke-OH]

To expound upon my previous post...

This is a solid core

C: Sisco

1B/LF/DH: Mancini

OF: Hays

2B: Schoop

SS: Beckham

SP: Gausman

SP: Bundy

RP: Givens

RP: Scott

RP: Castro

Then you just need one of Stewart, Mullins, and Santander to be an average or better regular (which I think is a very good chance).

That's a good start, and if you can add a 3B and a SP in the Britton, Machado, and Brach trades (which is extremely reasonable to expect) then you have a team that is exciting in 2019 and just a couple players away. 

 

 

[mdbdotcom]

3 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

To expound upon my previous post...

This is a solid core

C: Sisco

1B/LF/DH: Mancini

OF: Hays

2B: Schoop

SS: Beckham

SP: Gausman

SP: Bundy

RP: Givens

RP: Scott

RP: Castro

Then you just need one of Stewart, Mullins, and Santander to be an average or better regular (which I think is a very good chance).

That's a good start, and if you can add a 3B and a SP in the Britton, Machado, and Brach trades (which is extremely reasonable to expect) then you have a team that is exciting in 2019 and just a couple players away. 

 

 

Totally agree. It's probably premature to add Hunter Harvey to the 2019 rotation, but it sure does put our pitching woes in a different light.

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, mdbdotcom said:

Totally agree. It's probably premature to add Hunter Harvey to the 2019 rotation, but it sure does put our pitching woes in a different light.

They really need a pitcher to come out of relative prospect obscurity and be a solid rotation piece.  

[mdbdotcom]

19 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

They really need a pitcher to come out of relative prospect obscurity and be a solid rotation piece.  

That would require looking at our pitchers differently and seeing what other teams see in them; bringing the best out of the Parker Bridwell guys who languish in our system and then have at least some success elsewhere because somebody saw something we didn't see.

[pastorfan]

16 hours ago, clapdiddy said:

I agree with your premise, but I'd include Schoop in the trade mix.   He only has 2 years left here, and he may be the most valuable trade chip of all.

I agree. Only reason DD's philosophy worked was because you had a few years where the Yanks and Sox were retooling. Now that they are in good shape for the next five years, we have to change course. DD did well while they were down (with the exception of letting Miller and Cruz walk while flirting with the Jays, which cost us a year when the two giants were down.)

[Ruzious]

2 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

To expound upon my previous post...

This is a solid core

C: Sisco

1B/LF/DH: Mancini

OF: Hays

2B: Schoop

SS: Beckham

SP: Gausman

SP: Bundy

RP: Givens

RP: Scott

RP: Castro

Then you just need one of Stewart, Mullins, and Santander to be an average or better regular (which I think is a very good chance).

That's a good start, and if you can add a 3B and a SP in the Britton, Machado, and Brach trades (which is extremely reasonable to expect) then you have a team that is exciting in 2019 and just a couple players away. 

 

 

Yup - very reasonable if you and I were running the team.  And Mountcastle will likely be knocking on the door and might even have a position he can play.     

[esmd]

Yes.  Better too early than too late.  With the NYY and Boston, we're a 3rd place team at best in all likelihood.  I'm keeping Gausman, Bundy, Mancini, Schoop, Beckham, Givens, Castro, and all the other usual prospects.  Everyone else is available.  I realize not everyone is likely tradable (Davis, etc.,), but I'd try and make something work.

[panick]

3 hours ago, pastorfan said:

I agree. Only reason DD's philosophy worked was because you had a few years where the Yanks and Sox were retooling. Now that they are in good shape for the next five years, we have to change course. DD did well while they were down (with the exception of letting Miller and Cruz walk while flirting with the Jays, which cost us a year when the two giants were down.)

The real reason Duquette's "philosophy" worked was because the previous GM already had in place the players who would become the core of the team.

Before starting Duquette's interview this morning on the MLB network, they showed pictures of 4 Orioles who they said had been acquired by Duquette. Three of those players were Machado, Britton and Jones. They were all with the O's before Duquette was.