Who is next?

[mdbdotcom]

Trade Villar for a Popsicle stick and a wrist band. He'll be available again in December after his new team non-tenders him, just in case we still want him.

[Camden_yardbird]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Astros also managed to cut payroll to a much lower level than the Orioles have.  In 2013 they were at 22M. 

What does 6 years of inflation look like?

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They traded Brach for 1/3 of Jack Zoellner.

That was the old group with PA pulling the strings 

[Can_of_corn]

27 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

What does 6 years of inflation look like?

It doesn't look like 67M.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

That was the old group with PA pulling the strings 

So you are saying they haven't traded anyone to cut payroll using one trade, which did save them money, as your argument?  How about we wait and see if Elias makes another deal?

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It doesn't look like 67M.

Corn ... what is 67 million?

I said there is no way they nontender him to save between 6 and 7 million.

 

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you are saying they haven't traded anyone to cut payroll using one trade, which did save them money, as your argument?  How about we wait and see if Elias makes another deal?

I’m not saying they won’t trade Villar. I don’t see them keeping him and nontenderibg him. 

I would assume that they want to trade him for assets. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Corn ... what is 67 million?

I said there is no way they nontender him to save between 6 and 7 million.

 

67M is roughly the O's payroll this year, as compared to the Astros low water mark of 22M.  At least I think it is, hard to make heads or tails of the various payroll numbers and what all they count.

As for the 6-7M number I addressed that already by expressing my doubts he would cost so little. 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok, let's look at the contending teams. Tell me who he'd start over? I count one team (the A's) that "might" consider him a middle infield upgrade. So while you may think Villar is a valuable player in teh context of the other 2B and SS' in the league he really isn't, 

Yankees - LeMahieu / Torres

Red Sox - Chavis / Bogaerts

Rays - Lowe / Adames or Wendle

Twins - Schoop / Polanco

Indians - Kipnis / Lindor

Astros - Altuve / Correa

A's - Barreto / Semien

Rangers - Odor / Andrus

Braves - Albies / Swanson

Nationals - Dozier or Kendrick / Turner

Phillies - Hernandez / Segura

Cubs - Russell / Baez

Cardinals - Wong / DeJong

Brewers - Hiura / Arcia

Dodgers - Muncy / Seager

 

Someone who loses a guy to injury or is seriously underperforming. I’m not looking to try and figure it out. But as I recall the Cubs middle infield is underperforming. That doesn’t mean they will trade for him. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m not saying they won’t trade Villar. I don’t see them keeping him and nontenderibg him. 

I would assume that they want to trade him for assets. 

I think every team would prefer to trade a player for something instead of non-tendering them.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

67M is roughly the O's payroll this year, as compared to the Astros low water mark of 22M.  At least I think it is, hard to make heads or tails of the various payroll numbers and what all they count.

As for the 6-7M number I addressed that already by expressing my doubts he would cost so little. 

Subtract Davis and your already down to 44. The Astros are comparable because they weren’t strapped with Davis and Cobb. If you then subtract Cobb you around 29 million. So then it’s close

[Camden_yardbird]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It doesn't look like 67M.

Alright your sarcastic answer made me do some research and now instead of having a meaningful conversation about this we can discuss the actual numbers and how your are not adding anything fact based to this discussion.

Lets start with how it was not $22 million in 2013, it was $35 (30th) in the AL.

That was precluded by a $55 million (29th) payroll in 2012.

And followed by $51 (29th) in 2014.

The Orioles payroll is $63 (29th).

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2014/

My conclusion is that you cherry picked the lowest year and on top of that you didnt account for where that payroll stood in relation to the rest of the league. Which supports my assertion that there is some inflation baked in there as the Orioles at 29th sit in the exact same position in payroll.

Additionally, my argument still stands.  After going back up to $51 in 2014 they increased their payroll $15-$25 M every subsequent year.

2015: $81 M

2016:  $103 M

2017:  $138

The orioles can and should start investing in the roster via free agency in meaningful ways starting this offseason.  The notion that the Orioles should for some reason eschew free agency for 3 years and hope their drafting/J2 signings make a team is as rediculous as them spending the last 10 years avoiding the J2 process.

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Someone who loses a guy to injury or is seriously underperforming. I’m not looking to try and figure it out. But as I recall the Cubs middle infield is underperforming. That doesn’t mean they will trade for him. 

My point is that Villar is an upgrade over nearly no one. He's not going to be valued and he probably shouldn't be because he's not really an upgrade over anyone. Even the Cubs have Zobrist coming back who they can play at 2B if they decide to bench Russell. Or they'll trade for someone better. I'd be amazed if the return for Villar is better than what we got for Cashner and it probably shouldn't be. We can go back and forth all day, but the reality is there are probably 30+ current 2Bs I'd rank ahead of him. 

[weams]

3 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Then it will be a tough road.  I have commented previously that the Houston model had them increasing payroll $15 to $20 million a year through the rebuild.  A rebuild requires additions through all avenues.

Once they get down to 23 million, including Davis, I suspect they will start to add at the 40 man level. 

[weams]

5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

My point is that Villar is an upgrade over nearly no one. He's not going to be valued and he probably shouldn't be because he's not really an upgrade over anyone. Even the Cubs have Zobrist coming back who they can play at 2B if they decide to bench Russell. Or they'll trade for someone better. I'd be amazed if the return for Villar is better than what we got for Cashner and it probably shouldn't be. We can go back and forth all day, but the reality is there are probably 30+ current 2Bs I'd rank ahead of him. 

They will get rid of his money to someone.