Elias: emulating the Rays?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

He hasn’t made that many trades, but remember, his goal is to make the future team better. His goal might very well be to deliberately make the current team worse because the third draft pick is more valuable than the 15th, so if he can trade a good reliever now for a guy who might be good in 5 years, he will do it.

And to get payroll as low as feasibly possible.

[makoman]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And to get payroll as low as feasibly possible.

I'm sure he doesn't want to waste payroll on a bad season, but trading Bleier's pro-rated $915k to bring up a guy making pro-rated $563k doesn't really move the needle. If this was that important then surely someone would take Givens for nothing and Iglesias would be somewhere else.

[Can_of_corn]

20 minutes ago, makoman said:

I'm sure he doesn't want to waste payroll on a bad season, but trading Bleier's pro-rated $915k to bring up a guy making pro-rated $563k doesn't really move the needle. If this was that important then surely someone would take Givens for nothing and Iglesias would be somewhere else.

I was talking more about stuff like the Villar and Bundy trades.  I'm specially skeptical of the return for Bundy.  It looks like a salary dump move.

Iglesias is why I said feasibly.  The team really needed an actual shortstop and he was an inexpensive addition.

[weams]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

  I'm specially skeptical of the return for Bundy.  It looks like a salary dump move.

 

You would have no data to base that on other than Bundy's resurgence with a different pitching coach. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, weams said:

You would have no data to base that on other than Bundy's resurgence with a different pitching coach. 

I'm not buying into Bundy's "resurgence" quite yet.  I'm going off of Data, the fact that Bundy has been close to league average and has been pretty durable the last few years.  I think that's worth more than what the O's got in return if you are willing to pay him.

[weams]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not buying into Bundy's "resurgence" quite yet.  I'm going off of Data, the fact that Bundy has been close to league average and has been pretty durable the last few years.  I think that's worth more than what the O's got in return if you are willing to pay him.

How would you know what was received back? There is no data whatsoever. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, weams said:

How would you know what was received back? There is no data whatsoever. 

Quote

The Angels made their first offseason addition to their starting rotation on Wednesday, acquiring right-hander Dylan Bundy from the Orioles for Minor League right-handers Isaac Mattson, Zach Peek, Kyle Bradish and Kyle Brnovich.

https://www.mlb.com/news/dylan-bundy-traded-to-angels

[weams]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/dylan-bundy-traded-to-angels

Funny. Who are any of them today? Anyway, I am very sure that we wanted to avoid paying Dylan. SO you win. Even if one of those arms pitches well for the Orioles at any point. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, weams said:

Funny. Who are any of them today? Anyway, I am very sure that we wanted to avoid paying Dylan. SO you win. Even if one of those arms pitches well for the Orioles at any point. 

Weren't you a fan of the two 16th round picks the O's got for Matusz?

[weams]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Weren't you a fan of the two 16th round picks the O's got for Matusz?

I'm not certain. I like to watch all new prospects actually play for an Orioles affiliate. 

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

He hasn’t made that many trades, but remember, his goal is to make the future team better. His goal might very well be to deliberately make the current team worse because the third draft pick is more valuable than the 15th, so if he can trade a good reliever now for a guy who might be good in 5 years, he will do it.

Phil ... I would never judge whether the team is better now after a trade for a rebuilding club.

 

Also he has had some trade pieces .....

 

He gave away Yaz that many here are upset about and got Tyler Herb (28) and had a 6+ ERA at AA last year (LOST)

Traded INT SLOTS for Broxton (was only here a short time) from the Giants (Certainly didn't win that trade)

Cashner deal ..... Really young Dominican non-prospects for a pitcher going to a contender for a playoff run (LOST)

Villar .... Easton Lucas is all he could get ... A low round (19th) with a terrible college ERA. He's actually been okay. Just under 4 ERA (LOST)

Bundy ... Despite being 25 Mattson is only the current 60 man ...but not on the 40.       (Too Early too tell)

                Peek is 22 and DNP last year after being drafted. He was a 4.00 ERA pitcher at Winthrop and is likely only filler

                Brnovich is another 22 year old drafted last year out of Elon

                Bradish (Only player ranked in our top 30 at #20) He's also 22

 

The Bundy is the best of the deals ....I think the returns for Cashner and Villar were poor!

 

Quote

2019-20 Offseason

• Acquired RHPs Isaac Mattson, Zach Peek, Kyle Bradish and Kyle Brnovich from Angels for RHP Dylan Bundy
• Acquired LHP Easton Lucas from Marlins for INF Jonathan Villar

2019 Season

• Acquired OF Elio Prado and INF Noelberth Romero from Red Sox for RHP Andrew Cashner
• Acquired RHP Asher Wojciechowski from Indians for cash
• Acquired OF Keon Broxton from Mets for international bonus availability
• Acquired RHP Tyler Herb from Giants for OF Mike Yastrzemski

 

[Sports Guy]

The return for Cashner was excellent.

[CallMeBrooksie]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

 

Cashner deal ..... Really young Dominican non-prospects for a pitcher going to a contender for a playoff run (LOST)

This part alone tells me you either aren't assessing these transactions in good faith, or you simply didn't pay any attention at all to who Cashner is as a player.

[Philip]

9 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Phil ... I would never judge whether the team is better now after a trade for a rebuilding club.

 

Also he has had some trade pieces .....

 

He gave away Yaz that many here are upset about and got Tyler Herb (28) and had a 6+ ERA at AA last year (LOST)

Traded INT SLOTS for Broxton (was only here a short time) from the Giants (Certainly didn't win that trade)

Cashner deal ..... Really young Dominican non-prospects for a pitcher going to a contender for a playoff run (LOST)

Villar .... Easton Lucas is all he could get ... A low round (19th) with a terrible college ERA. He's actually been okay. Just under 4 ERA (LOST)

Bundy ... Despite being 25 Mattson is only the current 60 man ...but not on the 40.       (Too Early too tell)

                Peek is 22 and DNP last year after being drafted. He was a 4.00 ERA pitcher at Winthrop and is likely only filler

                Brnovich is another 22 year old drafted last year out of Elon

                Bradish (Only player ranked in our top 30 at #20) He's also 22

 

The Bundy is the best of the deals ....I think the returns for Cashner and Villar were poor!

 

 

I appreciate the info, But you are missing a couple of important facts, the most important of which is that most of the returns we got our guys who were several years away.

Mike went for future potential, Knowing that some of that potential would be lost. Also, remember what he was trading away. I don’t need to list the faults of all the players we traded, But they were well known.

Also remember that Mike has a specific desire to keep the team bad. He doesn’t care if we win 50 games instead of 45, but he damn sure doesn’t want us to win 70 instead of 50. I think that is brutal logic, but I do understand it.

It cannot be stressed enough that draft picks are the best way to improve your team. Mike wants a single digit draft pick, preferably top five. If he has to give away our only two good guys To do it, he will do it, and we will scream.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

I appreciate the info, But you are missing a couple of important facts, the most important of which is that most of the returns we got our guys who were several years away.

Mike went for future potential, Knowing that some of that potential would be lost. Also, remember what he was trading away. I don’t need to list the faults of all the players we traded, But they were well known.

Also remember that Mike has a specific desire to keep the team bad. He doesn’t care if we win 50 games instead of 45, but he damn sure doesn’t want us to win 70 instead of 50. I think that is brutal logic, but I do understand it.

It cannot be stressed enough that draft picks are the best way to improve your team. Mike wants a single digit draft pick, preferably top five. If he has to give away our only two good guys To do it, he will do it, and we will scream.

And yet he didn't trade Mancini.