Importance of a Third Catcher

[Bahama O's Fan]

On our roster, how important is it to have one compared to using that spot for another player? How many times a week is Sisco DHing? How often does a catcher get injured while the other is the DH? You can get a catcher the next day? How many ABs might this likely affect? Two? Three? Is it wise? Once you get past the middle innings you can pinch hit for the pitcher.

[Can_of_corn]

Good point, if they didn't have that third catcher they could carry three relief pitchers Hyde would never use.

I think the only reason they are running with three is that Holaday was going to opt out if they didn't promote him.  I guess they figure that having him around for emergencies is worth the roster spot with the expanded roster.

[DrungoHazewood]

Historically teams often or usually carried third catchers years and years ago, like prior to WWII, but after rosters expanded to modern sizes around WWI.  A century ago it was much less common for catchers to play nearly every day, and 25-man rosters were novel and team didn't always utilize the whole thing effectively.  Guys like Moe Berg would be on the roster the whole year and play in parts of 30-40 games.

With modern transaction rules and catching equipment I don't think it's usually a wise use of roster space.

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Historically teams often or usually carried third catchers years and years ago, like prior to WWII, but after rosters expanded to modern sizes around WWI.  A century ago it was much less common for catchers to play nearly every day, and 25-man rosters were novel and team didn't always utilize the whole thing effectively.  Guys like Moe Berg would be on the roster the whole year and play in parts of 30-40 games.

With modern transaction rules and catching equipment I don't think it's usually a wise use of roster space.

You could afford to be inefficient when your pitching staff was tiny.

[DrungoHazewood]

33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You could afford to be inefficient when your pitching staff was tiny.

Berg was the 3rd catcher on the '27 White Sox.  They had eight pitchers who appeared in more than one game.  The 2020 Orioles used nine pitchers in the first two games of the season.

[eddie83]

On this team it’s basically a 3rd catcher vs another OF. Mullins would be an asset for late game defense or pinch running but I think we will see Sisco play a ton moving forward. 

[DrungoHazewood]

Crazy team of the day: the 1922 Yankees.  They used eight pitchers all year. One was Clem Llewellyn, who pitched the one inning of his MLB career in June.  Another was Lefty O'Doul, who threw eight games, 16 innings. 

So almost the entire pitching load was handled by the five regular starters who averaged about 260 innings a piece, and George Murray who threw 56.2 innings mostly in relief (but had zero saves).  The team leader in saves was Sad Sam Jones, who also started 28 games and threw 260 innings.

Their top five pitchers threw 95% of their innings, and top six about 99%.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Crazy team of the day: the 1922 Yankees.  They used eight pitchers all year. One was Clem Llewellyn, who pitched the one inning of his MLB career in June.  Another was Lefty O'Doul, who threw eight games, 16 innings. 

So almost the entire pitching load was handled by the five regular starters who averaged about 260 innings a piece, and George Murray who threw 56.2 innings mostly in relief (but had zero saves).  The team leader in saves was Sad Sam Jones, who also started 28 games and threw 260 innings.

Their top five pitchers threw 95% of their innings, and top six about 99%.

Truly, they were men in those days.

[Beef Supreme]

From 1996 through 1999, I derided sportswriters who insisted in print that the Orioles "third Catcher" was BJ Surhoff. Clearly, Orioles management disagreed with them; behind the two primary Catchers the Orioles played Cesar Devarez, Mark Parent, Charlie Greene, Melvin Rosario and Tommy Davis behind the plate

Even BJ Surhoff disagreed with those sportswriters. Surhoff played all of ZERO innings at Catcher for Baltimore. He had no desire to catch ever again after leaving the Brewers. From the time he arrived he complained of knee pain. He was less the "third Catcher" than was Lenn Sakata. 

[MCO'sFan]

I think with the current roster consisting of several guys who can play INF/OF having the 3rd catcher is a great move. It allows Hyde to DH one of Severino or Sisco when both are hot as they have been. The fact that Holaday can play a little first is a bonus. I think it leads to more lineup flexibility than less. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

4 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I think with the current roster consisting of several guys who can play INF/OF having the 3rd catcher is a great move. It allows Hyde to DH one of Severino or Sisco when both are hot as they have been. The fact that Holaday can play a little first is a bonus. I think it leads to more lineup flexibility than less. 

But this is what I mean. How many games per week will one catch and one DH? How often will the catcher that day get injured? How many at bats will that affect? If he gets injured in the first inning, it's still only two or three at bats. You pinch hit in the late innings because you have the bullpen pitching. The next day, you have a catcher up. Is that worth another OF? or pitcher?

[jabba72]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

Truly, they were men in those days.

I think it was more their arms could handle a mid 80's fastball alot better than what pitchers are working with today. Assuming they even threw mid 80's. I also think less processed foods probably helped their tendons stay strong. 

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

But this is what I mean. How many games per week will one catch and one DH? How often will the catcher that day get injured? How many at bats will that affect? If he gets injured in the first inning, it's still only two or three at bats. You pinch hit in the late innings because you have the bullpen pitching. The next day, you have a catcher up. Is that worth another OF? or pitcher?

I don't know what Hyde will do but if Davis gets benched ( and he should be)  then Nunez plays 1B.   That opens DH for Severino or Sisco.   The way those two are hitting I would not mind seeing them in the lineup most of the time  until they cool down.

[MurphDogg]

10 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

But this is what I mean. How many games per week will one catch and one DH? How often will the catcher that day get injured? How many at bats will that affect? If he gets injured in the first inning, it's still only two or three at bats. You pinch hit in the late innings because you have the bullpen pitching. The next day, you have a catcher up. Is that worth another OF? or pitcher?

Right now, our ideal lineup includes both Sisco and Severino in the lineup with Nunez at first and Davis on the bench. 

They haven't used that lineup yet, but it is almost certainly the best option with the current roster.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

Right now, our ideal lineup includes both Sisco and Severino in the lineup with Nunez at first and Davis on the bench. 

They haven't used that lineup yet, but it is almost certainly the best option with the current roster.

One minute apart.