2023 Rotation

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I guess if the O's have to slightly overpay for pitching in trades it will partly make up for all the high round pitchers the O's didn't draft that would have suffered severe arm injuries.

If you trade for them they can still have severe arm injuries.

[OriolesMagic83]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you trade for them they can still have severe arm injuries.

Of course, but hopefully they have already had the early career arm injuries and you can maybe get them at a discount.  Plus there is a much higher rate of top pitching prospects who shows signs of not making it after the first 2 or 3 years.  Elias is picking from a much smaller pool of pitchers who avoided career ending or career altering (losing speed, etc) injuries and are at least close to the majors. 

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Mavericksouth said:

You seem determined to provoke a fight with me? My question is why? I'm here to talk ball with baseball fans. If you want to get into a urinating contest, please redirect that to someone who wishes to engage in that kind of behavior.

As for the baseball discussion, if you like Hall, great! Keep him. And if he turns into a stud, awesome for the Orioles. I'll be very happy for you guys. But again, Hall nor any other pitcher that the Orioles could offer solves the Marlins problems which is we don't have offense. We already have an abundance of arms that the organization likes. 

You did say you had 6 pitching prospects you consider better than Hall, didn’t you?

Hall was rated #4 in our system and Cabrera was rated #3 in your system. They’re writeups and grades are very similar.  Am I not allowed to make a point?

The point being, you consider yourself objective but some of the stuff you come out with seems just as hyperbolic as what you accuse “Oriole fans” of.

Edited October 4, 2022 by RZNJ

[Pickles]

56 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You did say you had 6 pitching prospects you consider better than Hall, didn’t you?

Hall was rated #4 in our system and Cabrera was rated #3 in your system. They’re writeups and grades are very similar.  Am I not allowed to make a point?

The point being, you consider yourself objective but some of the stuff you come out with seems just as hyperbolic as what you accuse “Oriole fans” of.

Rein it in, buddy.

His major point is that FLA doesn't want pitching.  So Hall has little value for them in a trade.

[RZNJ]

34 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Rein it in, buddy.

His major point is that FLA doesn't want pitching.  So Hall has little value for them in a trade.

For the upteenth time I said his proposal was fair.  My initial proposal which included Hall didn’t take into account that he doesn’t want or need pitching.  I repeatedly said his offer was fair.  I take exception of some of his other comments.   Just like you do with other posters sometimes. Only, I never tell you to rein it in.   

[Pickles]

26 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

For the upteenth time I said his proposal was fair.  My initial proposal which included Hall didn’t take into account that he doesn’t want or need pitching.  I repeatedly said his offer was fair.  I take exception of some of his other comments.   Just like you do with other posters sometimes. Only, I never tell you to rein it in.   

No worries.  I probably should rein it in a lot of times.   

But I'm hard-headed like that.

[Sports Guy]

To be fair to RZ, I do think it’s a bit over then top to say you have 6 pitching prospects better than Hall.  That’s definitely not true.

Hall is a top 5 prospect in our system, which is way better than the Marlins system.

Now, if you want to say you feel more confident in several prospects over Hall because you don’t think he starts and they do, that’s a different story.  But that’s a far different statement than saying 6 guys are better prospects.

[MarCakes21]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

To be fair to RZ, I do think it’s a bit over then top to say you have 6 pitching prospects better than Hall.  That’s definitely not true.

Hall is a top 5 prospect in our system, which is way better than the Marlins system.

Now, if you want to say you feel more confident in several prospects over Hall because you don’t think he starts and they do, that’s a different story.  But that’s a far different statement than saying 6 guys are better prospects.

Agree.  We also are trying to come up with "fair" trade proposals with someone who has no standing in the Marlins org anyways.  He's saying what he wants/needs, but he has no insight that the Marlins won't value a live arm that is big league ready.  He just thinks they have alternatives.

Back to the general proposal, if we're talking a proposal that includes no ML prospects, he's said what he'd generally accept.  My opinion is to start around Cowser+Westburg, and then have the third piece be either Hall or Mayo.  Let them pick.  After that, any fourth would be a throw in type.

That's two top 100 prospects come this offseason, plus two borderline top 100s.

[MarCakes21]

As for the overall topic, I'd still rather spend big money on the 3 year deals before the the rest of the team gets expensive.  I'd start with a 3 year for whatever it takes to win for Rodon, then add a 3 year for a more experience vet type innings eater and #2 like Bassitt or Eovaldi.  Need two top of the rotation types to take the burden off of GRod, Bradish, Kremer and then you can move Wells/Voth to the pen and have Hall gain more experience as a SP for one last shot down in AAA.

[Mavericksouth]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

To be fair to RZ, I do think it’s a bit over then top to say you have 6 pitching prospects better than Hall.  That’s definitely not true.

Hall is a top 5 prospect in our system, which is way better than the Marlins system.

Now, if you want to say you feel more confident in several prospects over Hall because you don’t think he starts and they do, that’s a different story.  But that’s a far different statement than saying 6 guys are better prospects.

Forgive me, but i just went and checked this thread. I don't know where I said six prospects. I do believe we have Eury Perez and Max Meyer who are higher rated as prospects depending on your preferred scouting expert. Even then, if i got some quality and controllable young bats, I'd trade them too if I could. I'll say that my personal preference is that I like some of our pitching prospects more, and I wouldn't move Alcantara for any arm the Orioles may have. I like G. Rodriguez a lot, but he doesn't solve the Marlins' problems. So even a trade surrounding him for Alcantara wouldn't make any sense from our perspective.

But again, like my initial post said, the marlins do not need pitching so trying to trade arms to us is somewhat of a pointless discussion. Hall, Voth, Bradish, etc. have no value to us really. No disrespect to those guys, but we have an unbalanced farm with a bunch of arms and no one who can hit the ball. I'm also not disputing that your farm system is far superior to ours. You all have tremendous young bats and our offensive depth doesn't exist, thanks to Jeter and co.  

[RZNJ]

39 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

Forgive me, but i just went and checked this thread. I don't know where I said six prospects. I do believe we have Eury Perez and Max Meyer who are higher rated as prospects depending on your preferred scouting expert. Even then, if i got some quality and controllable young bats, I'd trade them too if I could. I'll say that my personal preference is that I like some of our pitching prospects more, and I wouldn't move Alcantara for any arm the Orioles may have. I like G. Rodriguez a lot, but he doesn't solve the Marlins' problems. So even a trade surrounding him for Alcantara wouldn't make any sense from our perspective.

But again, like my initial post said, the marlins do not need pitching so trying to trade arms to us is somewhat of a pointless discussion. Hall, Voth, Bradish, etc. have no value to us really. No disrespect to those guys, but we have an unbalanced farm with a bunch of arms and no one who can hit the ball. I'm also not disputing that your farm system is far superior to ours. You all have tremendous young bats and our offensive depth doesn't exist, thanks to Jeter and co.  

I apologize.  It wasn’t 6.  My bad.  It was 10.  In the other thread.

“That's cool. I'm just saying as a fan of another team that has a plethora of arms, Hall wouldn't be in our top 10 of pitchers in our organization. I think he could turn into a nice lefty specialist/Bullpen guy”.

So, worst case scenario for our guy and best case scenario for all of your guys.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by RZNJ

[Mavericksouth]

45 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I apologize.  It wasn’t 6.  My bad.  It was 10.  In the other thread.

“That's cool. I'm just saying as a fan of another team that has a plethora of arms, Hall wouldn't be in our top 10 of pitchers in our organization. I think he could turn into a nice lefty specialist/Bullpen guy”.

So, worst case scenario for our guy and best case scenario for all of your guys.

 

 

Okay but you incorrectly stated I said six prospects here. That's inaccurate. I believe I also clarified that I meant 10 guys in our system, including big league pitchers are better right now in that thread. That includes Sandy, Pablo, etc. I like the guys in our starting rotation more, that's my opinion. I'm not trying to troll here. With this "our team is better than yours" nonsense that I feel you're trying to bait me into.  Your rebuild has gone much better than ours did. The only thing we have done better consistently is developed starting pitching...that's it. We have no bats, no Bullpen, no competent GM or ownership.

Look, I get it. I take it you're a massive DL Hall fan. That's cool. Hence you "taking exception" to my preference of pitching in our organization.  I'm obviously not as high on Hall as you are.  That's fine too. It's a difference of opinion. I hope he is the ace that you hope he will be for the orioles. I have a lot of respect for what Elias has built. His eye for young hitters is impeccable. I'll come back here and say I got Hall wrong if he turns into Sandy and is a Cy Young winner in 2-5 years.He might be the next big thing and then again, he might not be. Best of luck to the guy and the orioles' future with him.  

[Moose Milligan]

Is RZNJ acting like a protective little league father over Orioles prospects again?  It's adorable when he does that.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Is RZNJ acting like a protective little league father over Orioles prospects again?  It's adorable when he does that.

It’s even funnier when he does it for Mateo, while also saying he’s not a good hitter and unreliable.  

[RZNJ]

37 minutes ago, Mavericksouth said:

Okay but you incorrectly stated I said six prospects here. That's inaccurate. I believe I also clarified that I meant 10 guys in our system, including big league pitchers are better right now in that thread. That includes Sandy, Pablo, etc. I like the guys in our starting rotation more, that's my opinion. I'm not trying to troll here. With this "our team is better than yours" nonsense that I feel you're trying to bait me into.  Your rebuild has gone much better than ours did. The only thing we have done better consistently is developed starting pitching...that's it. We have no bats, no Bullpen, no competent GM or ownership.

Look, I get it. I take it you're a massive DL Hall fan. That's cool. Hence you "taking exception" to my preference of pitching in our organization.  I'm obviously not as high on Hall as you are.  That's fine too. It's a difference of opinion. I hope he is the ace that you hope he will be for the orioles. I have a lot of respect for what Elias has built. His eye for young hitters is impeccable. I'll come back here and say I got Hall wrong if he turns into Sandy and is a Cy Young winner in 2-5 years.He might be the next big thing and then again, he might not be. Best of luck to the guy and the orioles' future with him.  

I’m not a massive D.L. Hall fan.   Just pointing out that he’s pretty highly thought of by the industry.   Hard to believe you have 10 pitchers between your ML roster and minors you feel are better. Whatever.  I thought your proposals were fair in the Alcantara discussion.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by RZNJ