Orioles sign Kyle Gibson

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MarCakes21 said:

You really would slot him behind Kremer and Bradish?  I understand they had good years, but this guy has averaged 1.4 WAR for 10 years.  They're second year guys.  The could be TOR or out of the league by the end of the year.  

Where was Lyles last year?  Behind those guys?  And Gibson is better than Lyles

Oh you could put him third, but he's not a #3 starter.

 

[MarCakes21]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh you could put him third, but he's not a #3 starter.

 

He's a 3 or more than half the teams in the ML

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d say yes, he moves the needle.  Question is, do the players we’d trade away move the needle in the other direction?

Would the Marlins do Lopez for Urias, Stowers, and my guy, Joey Ortiz?  

Now, right away I feel everyone is going to say we're giving up too much but the first step is offering enough without taking away from the 2023 team. I'd prefer to send Norby but the Marlins, I think, need a SS, not a 2B.  Perhaps it makes more sense to substitute Westburg for Ortiz.  You have to give something to get something.  Some will use WAR to suggest Urias alone should be enough.  I don't think he is.  Trading Mullins weakens the 2023 Orioles.  I don't think trading Urias necessarily does.

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d say yes, he moves the needle.  Question is, do the players we’d trade away move the needle in the other direction?

Would the Marlins do Lopez for Urias, Stowers, and my guy, Joey Ortiz?  

Now, right away I feel everyone is going to say we're giving up too much but the first step is offering enough without taking away from the 2023 team. I'd prefer to send Norby but the Marlins, I think, need a SS, not a 2B.  Perhaps it makes more sense to substitute Westburg for Ortiz.  You have to give something to get something.  Some will use WAR to suggest Urias alone should be enough.  I don't think he is.  Trading Mullins weakens the 2023 Orioles.  I don't think trading Urias necessarily does.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Would the Marlins do Lopez for Urias, Stowers, and my guy, Joey Ortiz?  

Now, right away I feel everyone is going to say we're giving up too much but the first step is offering enough without taking away from the 2023 team. I'd prefer to send Norby but the Marlins, I think, need a SS, not a 2B.  Perhaps it makes more sense to substitute Westburg for Ortiz.  You have to give something to get something.  Some will use WAR to suggest Urias alone should be enough.  I don't think he is.  Trading Mullins weakens the 2023 Orioles.  I don't think trading Urias necessarily does.

The Marlins would be crazy not to do that, IMO.   I agree we could do it without really hurting the current team, but it’s still a lot to give up.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Would the Marlins do Lopez for Urias, Stowers, and my guy, Joey Ortiz?  

Now, right away I feel everyone is going to say we're giving up too much but the first step is offering enough without taking away from the 2023 team. I'd prefer to send Norby but the Marlins, I think, need a SS, not a 2B.  Perhaps it makes more sense to substitute Westburg for Ortiz.  You have to give something to get something.  Some will use WAR to suggest Urias alone should be enough.  I don't think he is.  Trading Mullins weakens the 2023 Orioles.  I don't think trading Urias necessarily does.

It isn't just about matching up with what Lopez is projected to be but to meet or exceed whatever other offers the Marlins might receive.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It isn't just about matching up with what Lopez is projected to be but to meet or exceed whatever other offers the Marlins might receive.

Of course. They don't need pitching. They need offense.  I'm giving 3 potential starters for 2023, 2 very cheap and controllable pieces.  I think I proposed an overpay taking into consideration that we have to offer something very attractive. 

[Moose Milligan]

If Gibson has a great start @DrinkinWithFermi isn’t allowed to enjoy it

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Marlins would be crazy not to do that, IMO.   I agree we could do it without really hurting the current team, but it’s still a lot to give up.  

Again, I'm trying to keep the high ceiling players, Cowser and Mayo, out of this and we are deep infielders.  I also feel Westburg has more offensive upside than Ortiz and Norby but that's just a gut feeling.  The only thing that hurts is that Ortiz is the safety net for Mateo.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If Gibson has a great start @DrinkinWithFermi isn’t allowed to enjoy it

Good possibility.  He had a 3.95 ERA in the first half last year and a 2.95 ERA in 2021 before Texas traded him to Philly.  He'll earn twice his contract by July but then you have to dump him. Lol

[owknows]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Again, I'm trying to keep the high ceiling players, Cowser and Mayo, out of this and we are deep infielders.  I also feel Westburg has more offensive upside than Ortiz and Norby but that's just a gut feeling.  The only thing that hurts is that Ortiz is the safety net for Mateo.

I think Ortiz will ultimately be the best of this bunch.

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by owknows

[orioles22]

I'd much rather deal from Westburg than Ortiz because of what I've read on here about their defense.

[tabletop]

Ortiz isn’t high ceiling? Mateo just had 3.4 WAR last year. Ortiz is supposed to be close to his glove and a much better bat. Seems like that’s a pretty high ceiling to me.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, orioles22 said:

I'd much rather deal from Westburg than Ortiz because of what I've read on here about their defense.

Yea but Westburg is more likely to be an everyday MLer because he has the more likely major league bat and his defense will be good at second.

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Again, I'm trying to keep the high ceiling players, Cowser and Mayo, out of this and we are deep infielders.  I also feel Westburg has more offensive upside than Ortiz and Norby but that's just a gut feeling.  The only thing that hurts is that Ortiz is the safety net for Mateo.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it.  I’d hope to give up less, and if this was the best we could do, I might grudgingly do it.  But it definitely feels like an overpay and it depletes assets we could use in other trades, etc.